Jonah Kagen | “Love Scares Me More Than Death”
Jonah Kagen has racked up over half a billion streams, scored a Billboard #1 hit with "God Needs the Devil," and sold out headline shows across the globe. But as he shares on Americana Curious, the commercial accolades didn't bring validation—they forced him to isolate, face his inner demons, and dig into his darkest songwriting yet.
In this raw, unfiltered conversation, Jonah joins host Ben Fanning (Zach Schultz couldn't join us for this one) to talk through:
- The #1 Hangover: Why chart success didn’t make his next record any easier, and why he views making music as a job of service rather than ego.
- Life on the Road: Totaling his truck, living nomadic in a modified Airstream studio, and recording in a stranger's front yard.
- Meeting Dave Matthews: How a custom guitar commission led to an intimate writer's round, tequila in pajamas, and an invitation to open at The Gorge.
- The New Album: The deeply personal, late-night creative marathons behind Eternity of Everything, and why the certainty of death scares him far less than love.
- Crowd Etiquette: The specific things fans need to start (and stop) doing at his high-energy live shows.
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Transcript
Joe Nickagagan has more than half a billion global streams, a global number one alternative hit and a sold out 32 day headline tour.
Speaker B:Having your first number one hasn't made making the next record easier.
Speaker C:No any of the commercial wins, as cool as they are and as great as they are for my career, wasn't the thing that felt good.
Speaker A:Now Jonah is entering a new chapter with Eternity of Everything, a darker, deeply personal record he wrote, produced and mixed largely on his own.
Speaker B:Think about death pretty calmly.
Speaker B:When did you first realize that love scared you more than death?
Speaker C:To me, death is out of my hands.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:And it's certain love is not.
Speaker C:We get into Al.
Speaker A:Jonah ended up on stage with Dave Matthews at the Gorge and the search behind his darkest, most personal record yet.
Speaker C:If I die without finding it, then it's gonna die with me.
Speaker C:It's like a very obvious stamp of my life.
Speaker D:I need you like God needs the devil Honey, someday soon this dust going to settle Come real quick and get inside my mind Cuz when I'm all up don't feel no pain Won't you run to me Run through my face Baby won't you come and give me high.
Speaker D:I'm in love in a nightmare Teeth don't wake me up Got a bad case of making bad luck it's who I am not who I was but that's a lie boy what can you do?
Speaker D:I need someone and I need them soon I called the doc and got new shoes but all roads still lead.
Speaker A:Back to you Raw real road worn the artists we feature aren't chasing fame, they're chasing truth.
Speaker A:I'm Ben Fanning with my co host Zach Schultz and this is Americana Curious, where we spotlight the unsung heroes of Americana music.
Speaker A:You'll get new songs, hard earned lessons, stories behind the music, and a big shot of inspiration.
Speaker A:Follow the show and rate us on Spotify and Apple and leave a review on Apple.
Speaker A:To help more people discover the power of Americana.
Speaker A:Let's get Americana Curious.
Speaker B:Jonah Kagan.
Speaker B:Welcome to Americana Curious, my friend.
Speaker C:How's it going man?
Speaker C:Good to see you.
Speaker B:Oh, so good.
Speaker B:So delighted to be here with you today.
Speaker B:So let's start with God Needs the Double.
Speaker B:What a song.
Speaker B:Took 29 weeks, as I understand it, to climb all the way to your first Billboard number one.
Speaker B:What was that experience like and how have things changed or not changed since then?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, thank you for having me, first of all.
Speaker C:I appreciate it very much.
Speaker C:And for the, the kind words on your, your intro, that was a weird.
Speaker C:That was A crazy experience.
Speaker C:I, I think the.
Speaker C:I never had any real deep expectations for that to, to do anything on the radio.
Speaker C:I don't think, like, anyone ever expects their song to climb up radio charts, at least that I was.
Speaker C:I was.
Speaker C:It just kept going.
Speaker C:It was a very weird experience because it was taking a long time.
Speaker C:And then everybody was telling me, oh, this will probably happen.
Speaker C:This will probably happen.
Speaker C:I was like, I don't know.
Speaker C:I'm just hanging out and I got to meet a bunch of radio like, like, program directors and a bunch of people who are in the industry that I had never engaged with before.
Speaker C:And then slowly, people were telling me that they heard my song on the radio and it just kept going.
Speaker C:And then one day it hit number one, and we were like, oh, my God.
Speaker C:Okay, so.
Speaker C:Sounds awesome.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I think to answer the second part of that question, how have things changed?
Speaker C:I think radio had a huge hand in this, but I think just more people have shown up to the shows and a lot of people have heard about me from the radio and have come to, like, want to see it live.
Speaker C:And I think that's been the real focus now is just, like, really touring as much as possible and showing up for the people who show up.
Speaker C:For me, it's really cool.
Speaker B:Right on, man.
Speaker B:I read there was a moment you traveled all the way to Australia.
Speaker C:I did.
Speaker B:Is that right?
Speaker B:And there were thousands of people singing your music back to you.
Speaker C:Crazy.
Speaker C:That definitely didn't necessarily have to do with the radio, I don't think, because I don't.
Speaker C:I don't know if I was climbing Australian radio charts how.
Speaker C:Maybe they.
Speaker C:Yeah, that.
Speaker C:I mean, you never know until, you know.
Speaker C:You know, even when you put a tour on sale or whatever, like, you don't know who's going to be there and what the demographic is and if people care or, like, any of those things.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:So it's always when I went to Australia, I was opening and I was opening for Sam Barber, and I was like, I, I, I guess, you know, I just get to enjoy his audience and hang out with my friend and.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then I got there and everybody knew the words and were singing back to me and stuff.
Speaker C:I was like, wow, okay.
Speaker B:What is that like for someone who's never had to happen to him?
Speaker B:I'm like, like, how?
Speaker B:Like, I've never had that happen.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You write.
Speaker B:You write a song, you go all the way across the world.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:People are singing it back to you.
Speaker B:How do you feel in that moment?
Speaker C:I think it.
Speaker C:In that moment, it takes on a new life for me.
Speaker C:Like, I. I have always said that the.
Speaker C:The writing the songs and making music, while it's fun, it doesn't really do anything for me personally, like, it.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:I. I feel like it's a service job.
Speaker C:And I know a lot of artists feel that it's very therapeutic to write and to make music, and that's what gets them through stuff.
Speaker C:I have never been that way.
Speaker C:I have only been like, well, my.
Speaker C:My pain and my experience, just if.
Speaker C:If nothing else can exist in some artful form, that it can serve somebody else.
Speaker C:And that's why I make music.
Speaker C:And so when I see people adapt it or adopt it, I should say, into their own lives.
Speaker C:And that's what I see when people sing it back.
Speaker C:When I see that, it just.
Speaker C:Like the songs aren't mine anymore and they become something else.
Speaker C:So to me, it is a really human element to it and it's.
Speaker C:It's very surreal.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:But I kind of reject the.
Speaker C:The, like, I try to reject the ego inflation that comes with that about like, yeah, people are singing my song.
Speaker C:I think it's just cool to see my experience be received by someone softly and.
Speaker C:And taken in their own way.
Speaker C:I think that part is, man, that's the.
Speaker B:That's really interesting.
Speaker B:It's like, hey, the way I. I know people write songs from a therapeutic standpoint or to get their art out in the world.
Speaker B:You're writing each one of these from a place of service to the listener.
Speaker C:I mean, that's really interesting.
Speaker C:I would not.
Speaker C:I would not dig deep into my, My, My soul and my problems had some, Some social benefit yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, gosh, man.
Speaker D:When I was young my mother told me don't play with guns that shit ain't holy There ain't no laws in living.
Speaker D:I got old My father told me go get a gun Protect the family Ain't nothing but outlaws in the real world so I got a gun Thought the Lord would hold me and I don't feel bad Hell, I don't feel holy Guess I'll have to find out on my own.
Speaker D:I don't know if I was making God's hands, but I know my father.
Speaker C:Is a good man.
Speaker B:Did having your first number one making, has it made making the next record easier?
Speaker C:No, I.
Speaker C:To be honest, I. I don't.
Speaker C:I don't think that it.
Speaker C:It any of the, like, commercial wins.
Speaker C:As cool as they are and as great as they are for my career, they really don't.
Speaker C:It doesn't matter.
Speaker C:Like, I, I think that the, the.
Speaker C:I, it was a huge deal when that happened, but the accolade wasn't the thing that, that felt good.
Speaker C:You know, the thing that felt good was, like I said, seeing it take on a new personality on the road and seeing it, like, in the eyes, in the, the.
Speaker C:The humanity of somebody that I was playing for and sharing that experience with.
Speaker C:So I think as far as, like, making music goes, nothing really changed.
Speaker C:Like, at least my perspective.
Speaker C:The only thing that changed was that the, the ceiling went a bit higher and I was like, there's more opportunity for me to reach more people here.
Speaker C:And that's.
Speaker C:That was literally it.
Speaker C:If, if anything, it put a little bit of pressure not on the music to do well necessarily, but for me to go to the same place that I went emotionally.
Speaker C:Well, I guess this is doing something which means I have to lock myself in a room and I have to go, you know, sort through the demons for a minute and, and I, But I, but also at the same time, like, while that isn't doing anything immediately for me by going and exploring all of my issues, I know that it's, it's in service of broader audience.
Speaker C:And when that audience continues to grow, whether it be because of a number one or because of just continued presence on the road and things like that or social media or whatever it is, I think when that's there in the back of my mind, it just continues to, to fuel the, the service aspect for me where I'm like, I have the opportunity to help people and serve people more and more and more.
Speaker C:So I'm just going to keep going.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you mentioned service and helping people through your music.
Speaker B:What's an example or like a real memorable one of where, where it wasn't just people singing it back to you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe a deeper shift for someone.
Speaker C:I've gotten notes, you know, and messages from people since I started about how the music has changed their lives.
Speaker C:But there are a few that I, I keep.
Speaker C:There are a few notes that I keep, like, in my wallet and with me in my gear cases and things like that that I, I, that live with me in a few fan interactions.
Speaker C:And typically it's very personal and it's a really interesting part of the job because I think people.
Speaker C:People have confessed a lot of.
Speaker C:A lot of really powerful, meaningful things to me, and I'm still a stranger, you know, to them.
Speaker C:I just, they find some shared humanity and how I'm presenting my emotions, and I get to have the opportunity to talk to them about Something that's deeply personal.
Speaker C:So I obviously don't want to air out anybody's.
Speaker C:Anybody's trauma or anything, anybody's experience.
Speaker C:But there have been a few interactions after shows or before shows or in public or anything like that where I've gotten to just hear somebody's deeply personal story and how they adopted the song.
Speaker C:And it might be in a way that's completely different from, you know, what I wrote it about, but to me, I was like, that.
Speaker C:That's your song.
Speaker C:That's not my song anymore.
Speaker C:And so I. I have a few of those that stick with me.
Speaker B:And is there one that turns up time and time again in those notes?
Speaker C:Yes, there are.
Speaker C:There are a few.
Speaker C:I have a song called Save My Soul that's a little bit older.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's funny because it didn't do super well commercially, but it.
Speaker C:A lot of people just really took.
Speaker C:There's a lot of desperation in that song, and I think people found some.
Speaker C:They resonated with the.
Speaker C:The, like desperation.
Speaker C:And so I. I've heard a lot of people's unique stories as it pertains to that.
Speaker D:Save me, save my soul.
Speaker D:Take me, take me home Darling, please don't go, don't leave I can't be alone I can't be alone I can't be alone.
Speaker D:I've got a love for you like tall grass in the wind.
Speaker D:You're still moving softly through me.
Speaker D:I still feel you on my skin.
Speaker D:And I could talk to God and I could ask him for forgiveness.
Speaker D:But if it don't keep you alive, then what's the reason I've been.
Speaker C:I've also, like, done my best to actually hang out with fans and, like, spend time with people after shows or when I'm on the road.
Speaker C:When I was living in my Airstream, there were a couple of times that I stopped where, like, fans were living because they had reached out to me and told me a story, and, you know, we'd get coffee or I'd stop on their porch and, you know, hang out and.
Speaker C:And move on.
Speaker C:And that's been a little bit more difficult as things have gotten bigger.
Speaker C:But I do think that the.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Instead of providing all their friends over.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:The spirit.
Speaker B:I thought we were just gonna talk.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I've got about 300 people here who.
Speaker C:Want to see Jonah.
Speaker C:I think you can.
Speaker C:You can tell when.
Speaker C:When the.
Speaker C:The significance is.
Speaker C:Is, like, human and real and not, you know, aggrandizing.
Speaker C:Like, I. I don't.
Speaker C:I don't Think that.
Speaker C:I think that's the most meaningful thing or those moments that feel deeply human.
Speaker C:Not in any way self righteous or anything like that.
Speaker B:Well, correct me if I'm wrong here.
Speaker B:Oh, you can fact check me, but the lore of Jonah is you had an Airstream.
Speaker B:You mentioned the Airstream.
Speaker C:That's true.
Speaker B:And you tricked this thing out with a recording studio in it because you were living and recording sunflowers and leather in this and then somehow you totaled the thing and then had to repair it and.
Speaker B:Yes, and I live in Charleston, South Carolina, and I believe this happened somewhere in South Carolina.
Speaker C:This did happen in South Carolina.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm from Savannah, so we're not too, not too far.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:You're from Savannah.
Speaker C:Recording studios should be in quotations because I had a bunch of mics and a desk.
Speaker C:You know, it was, it was a, like I had it bolted into the, into where the couch was in the Airstream.
Speaker C:So it was, you know, recording studio is a, is a, A bit of a.
Speaker C:What do you call it?
Speaker B:Quotes.
Speaker C:Yeah, right there.
Speaker C:But I did make the whole first record in there though, and that one was very much me just taking it around the country and being like, whatever happens, happens.
Speaker C:I e. Totaling my truck and having to deal with the consequences of that.
Speaker C:But that album was very much like, let's go accrue experience and just write about it.
Speaker B:What a cool idea.
Speaker C:It was awesome.
Speaker B:Nomadic.
Speaker B:Like you're.
Speaker B:You're riding on the road and you're recording it and you're seeing people.
Speaker B:It seems like an artist dream to some degree.
Speaker C:No, it was, it was, um, I, I think the.
Speaker C:And I still crave that lifestyle.
Speaker C:At least, you know, there was.
Speaker C:I found so much love in that, like, and just so much purpose and even just living that way and not even if I wasn't recording, just living that way was so magical and I'm.
Speaker B:Gonna move so interesting.
Speaker B:Like it's so magical and like, reading about it, I was like, man, that sounds so cool.
Speaker B:And the album is such a beautiful album.
Speaker C:Thank you, man.
Speaker B:And da da da.
Speaker B:You decided that worked out so well for your next album, Eternity of Everything, you're going to take a completely different approach to doing it and it's going to sound a little darker.
Speaker C:Yeah, it is.
Speaker B:It's cool.
Speaker B:It's special.
Speaker C:But so I definitely, I think the.
Speaker C:I always.
Speaker C:I very much believe in like a. I think your, Your second album shouldn't be your first, you know, And I, I think that like when you do one thing and it lands, I Think there's always a way to keep the spirit of that thing, but to, to take it to a different place and to, like, expound upon it sonically.
Speaker C:Fortunately, I, since I produce everything, I, I, I have the opportunity to do that where I don't have to, like, I can sit down and be like, okay, I did this last time.
Speaker C:What can I do differently now?
Speaker C:And my approach, at least philosophically, this one, was like, I, I left a lot of the process up to fate and, you know, up to, like, circumstance when I was in the first album, because I was just like, well, I'll be in a random place somewhere, and if it's super loud, then you're gonna hear the environment.
Speaker C:You know, there's a bird, my Airstream.
Speaker C:You're going to hear the bird fly my air, dream if you, you know, all.
Speaker C:And I, and I still wanted to keep that spirit, but I was like, this time I'd.
Speaker C:I'd really like to, like, lock myself in and isolate and dig in internally and then just get weird creatively and, like, musically and just be like, let's just try.
Speaker C:Let's try some.
Speaker C:Try some things musically that I haven't tried yet and also showcase, like, my production and my musicality via these songs and, and, like, the emotion of the songs and things like that.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, so Eternity of Anything is definitely, like, it's going to be a.
Speaker C:A much more person.
Speaker C:The first one was personal, too, but there was a lot of, like, this is just what's happening to me.
Speaker C:I think this one is like, here's what's inside of me, and there's a very clear theme.
Speaker C:And the album is bookended by, you know, this, like, opening statement that's sort of.
Speaker C:I won't spoil too much, but it's sort of like, I have this image in my head of what it is that I want at this stage of my life, and I'm gonna go get it and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna.
Speaker C:I will.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:If I die without finding it, then it's gonna die with me.
Speaker C:And then the whole album is like, every failure that I've had in pursuit of that and every version of that that looks complicated, hated, and murky.
Speaker C:And then it ends with, like, at least I can say that I tried, you know, And I think that there's, like, a very.
Speaker C:It's like a tattoo for me, you know, it's like a very obvious stamp of my life, and I'm very proud of it.
Speaker B:Yeah, the one that's.
Speaker B:And we're we're recording this.
Speaker B:It's not out yet, but I've gotten to hear the album and.
Speaker B:Holy smokes, Fireside.
Speaker B:Fireside Chat.
Speaker B:Is that the name of the, the song?
Speaker C:Oh, Drink by Fires.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Drink by.
Speaker B:Drink by fire.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:Drink by fire.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Your parents.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Your sister.
Speaker B:I mean, it's like you're, you're going full Netflix documentary on that one.
Speaker C:Thank you, man.
Speaker C:I love that.
Speaker B:So catchy.
Speaker B:The way it builds, too.
Speaker B:I mean, you got a real knack for taking us, taking us on a ride, like you said, sonically.
Speaker B:And in that building.
Speaker B:You've got the building banjo in there, and you're.
Speaker B:Are you playing the banjo or is.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, I'm.
Speaker B:You're doing that.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:The only things that I'm not playing on this record are cellos.
Speaker B:We'll give you, we'll give you a pass on that one.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker C:I'm arranging them at least, which is cool, but I just tell them what to do, but.
Speaker C:And they, but they bring their, Their touch to it, definitely.
Speaker C:You know, and then I think the, There are a couple of horn parts as well throughout the album that I, I can't cry.
Speaker C:I literally got it.
Speaker C:I, I bought a crumpet and I was like, I could figure this out.
Speaker C:And then I, like, I was like, that's the hardest thing I've ever.
Speaker B:A little more tastes a little longer to become Dizzy.
Speaker B:Dizzy Gillespie.
Speaker C:I was like, this is crazy.
Speaker C:I have a new.
Speaker B:Are you gonna bring a full.
Speaker B:Like, you get to bring all this stuff on tour with you, or you got a way to Sort of.
Speaker C:And someday.
Speaker C:Yeah, I will.
Speaker C:We'll see.
Speaker C:I think the touring business has to keep growing, you know that in order to afford more, more a bigger stage footprint.
Speaker C:But the dream for me is definitely, like, I would love to have strings and cellos.
Speaker C:And I also had a, A drummer, my drummer in my band.
Speaker C:He played on a bunch of these songs, and he played on my grandfather's kit from the 50s, which was really cool.
Speaker B:Oh, neat, man.
Speaker C:So there's a lot of.
Speaker C:There's a lot of heart in this record, for sure.
Speaker B:You, You've said and talked about that.
Speaker B:You, you can think about death pretty calmly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But love can send you into an anxious spiral.
Speaker B:And I'm curious.
Speaker B:When did you first realize that love scared you more than death?
Speaker C:Really funny.
Speaker C:I, I, I don't remember saying that, but it's super accurate.
Speaker B:Check me if that.
Speaker B:If that's not.
Speaker C:No, I, I'm sure I said it.
Speaker C:I just It.
Speaker C:It's funny because it's funny to hear your words that I don't remember saying, but that I obviously said because that.
Speaker C:That definitely feels right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:Although it sounds.
Speaker B:Wow, it's a no.
Speaker C:I've been very comfortable speaking about death, and death is not something that scares me very much.
Speaker C:I think the concept of, like, eternity scares me.
Speaker C:And that was partially.
Speaker C:Again, I don't want to.
Speaker C:I don't want to spoil too much, but I think the.
Speaker C:When it comes to the album, eternity of anything, that's what scares me a bit.
Speaker C:And so I think dying doesn't.
Speaker C:But when it comes to love,.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker C:Know, and eternal love or some version of finding something that is forever, I think to me, an eternity of anything is scary.
Speaker C:And so I.
Speaker C:That was kind of the.
Speaker C:The impetus for.
Speaker C:And there's a line in the title track that's basically like, I've never longed for an eternity of anything, but, you know, here are all these things that I'm confronted with.
Speaker C:So, to me, I think love sends me into an extra spiral.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:But mostly because I feel like I have a questionable agency.
Speaker C:Like, you don't have any agency when it comes to death.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:It comes.
Speaker C:When it comes.
Speaker C:You have no.
Speaker C:Like, I suppose you do if you make the choice, but, you know, assuming that, you know, you're not planning on it, death can come any.
Speaker C:Whatsoever.
Speaker C:And to me, death is out of my hands.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:Yes, like, you know, and it's certain.
Speaker C:Love is not, you know, to me, love is.
Speaker C:Love is not certain.
Speaker C:And I. I feel as though there's this, like, sort of half agency that exists with love where, like, love is very much a decision, but it's also something that happens to you.
Speaker C:And there are certain types of love that are different than others.
Speaker C:And it just sends me into this, like.
Speaker C:And then the concept of eternity as it pertains to love is just.
Speaker C:She stresses me out.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:So I think a lot of time in my.
Speaker C:In my head, obviously, but that was.
Speaker C:That was a big theme in this because I think, you know, the.
Speaker C:The two big emotions are love and fear.
Speaker C:And I think that's.
Speaker C:They're very closely linked and that's.
Speaker B:You explore them.
Speaker B:Well, my friend and I was reading something about you, like, doing these marathon songwriting production sessions, like 4:00am And.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Do you do a lot of your stuff in the middle of the night, early morning hours?
Speaker C:I like.
Speaker C:I like when it's quiet.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:There's something like.
Speaker C:It's not even.
Speaker C:It's very weird.
Speaker C:I I. I think there's something to be said about, like, the.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The energy in a room at the hours in which no one else is awake.
Speaker C:And it's not even.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:It's not even literal noise.
Speaker C:Like, I could be in the library, I could be in some place or in the studio.
Speaker C:Like, it would be somewhere super quiet.
Speaker C:But if it's noon, I feel different because I know other people are working and I know there's like.
Speaker C:I know there is noise outside of the room.
Speaker C:If it's four in the morning or three in the morning and I'm sitting there and it's quiet on the street, and I see my dog, you know, sleeping in the room, and I'm just sitting.
Speaker C:Like, I feel small in a very comfortable way.
Speaker C:And for whatever reason that.
Speaker C:Whatever that energy is, to me, it's either super early in the morning or super late at night.
Speaker C:And those end up being the same time, obviously.
Speaker C:But it's funny because my sister, who's my manager, she gets up every day super, super early.
Speaker C:And so when I'm making something or if.
Speaker C:When I've.
Speaker C:Like when I'm recording a record, we always overlap because late.
Speaker C:And she'll text me and I'll be like, oh, good morning.
Speaker C:And she'll be like, have you gone to bed yet?
Speaker C:I'll be like, no.
Speaker C:I'm like, just.
Speaker C:And she's up, so we get to hang out.
Speaker B:So funny.
Speaker B:It's like you all work around the clock, but just separate parts of the clock.
Speaker C:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker C:And she's the same way.
Speaker C:You know, she gets her best work done from 4 to 7am that's just her.
Speaker B:That's so funny how it works.
Speaker B:So what.
Speaker B:What should people expect when they come to a Jonah Kagan show?
Speaker C:Honestly, it's turned into a really emotional show.
Speaker C:Um, but I think the biggest surprise that people have is that we.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker C:We kind of rock.
Speaker C:Um, there.
Speaker C:There's a lot of, like, it's a rock.
Speaker C:It turns into a rock show.
Speaker C:I think what we try really hard, what I try to do, is to strike the balance between rock headbanging, like, really loud, cool instrumental musical moments where we're soloing and jamming and the drums are loud, and these are loud and emotional.
Speaker C:And then very pretty arrangements where tones are stacked in this very pretty, creative way.
Speaker C:And it's very spacey and ambient.
Speaker C:And then in between, I just say a lot of random stuff.
Speaker C:I. I've learned that, like, half of my show for people is just me kind of saying whatever things pop into my head.
Speaker B:Or maybe, like, political commentaries, telling stories.
Speaker B:What do you.
Speaker B:What do you.
Speaker C:Oh, usually it's just intrusive thoughts that pop in, but I usually tell stories.
Speaker C:I tell a lot of stories, and I try to.
Speaker C:I feel like a lot of the songs are so heavy, and my personality is not necessarily very, like, he.
Speaker C:I'm not a very.
Speaker B:Yeah, you don't get that.
Speaker B:Talking to you like you.
Speaker B:Like, you.
Speaker B:Like, you're.
Speaker C:I'm not a very sad guy, generally speaking, or a very, like, emotional guy on the surface.
Speaker C:And so I. I try to let people see how I am and just talk to people and make jokes and, you know, talk to the crowd and interact and things like that.
Speaker C:But I think as we continue to go, and especially with this new record, I think the show is going to become even more musical and even an even more exaggerated version of what I was talking about, where there are, like, big rock moments, but also really cool musical decisions and.
Speaker C:And emotional moments and things like that.
Speaker C:I want it to be something that people can't really get anywhere else.
Speaker B:Well, selling out over 30 shows on your tour.
Speaker B:Something's working.
Speaker C:Something's working, man.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I'm just gonna keep.
Speaker B:Keep.
Speaker C:Keep putting my head down.
Speaker C:That's the plan.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:What should people start doing and stop doing when they come to a Jonah K and Chow.
Speaker C:Man, which they start doing and stop doing?
Speaker C:That's a good question.
Speaker C:I think they should.
Speaker C:They should start.
Speaker C:I'm hesitant to say this because I don't want this to turn into a.
Speaker C:A thing, but I love when people yell stuff at me.
Speaker C:Like, I. I think it's awesome because I've got.
Speaker C:I'm really good at, like.
Speaker C:At, like, bouncing off this stuff that doesn't.
Speaker C:Whatever.
Speaker B:It was, like, an improv moment for Jonah.
Speaker C:So many times somebody says it leads to a story or it leads to, like, a conversation or at least, or whatever.
Speaker C:I love talking to, like, the interaction, though.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I would say, like, I. I love when people yell stuff at me.
Speaker C:I love when people, like, half signs and, you know, like, all that stuff.
Speaker C:I think it's really cool.
Speaker C:I think they should probably stop.
Speaker C:Let's see.
Speaker C:I would say they could.
Speaker C:They could still.
Speaker C:Well, stop passing out.
Speaker C:That's one.
Speaker B:I don't definitely stop that business.
Speaker C:Definitely stop passing out.
Speaker C:I would say.
Speaker C:I would say stop.
Speaker C:Oh, you know, it's a good one, actually.
Speaker C:I would say stop the song requests that we've already played.
Speaker C:That happens.
Speaker C:Oh, that happens so often.
Speaker C:We'll play a song and then later in the set, somebody will be like, play this.
Speaker C:And we played it like two songs ago.
Speaker B:I would say they were in the bathroom.
Speaker B:They missed it.
Speaker C:I would say, stop asking us to come to a city that we were just in.
Speaker C:That one's a big one too.
Speaker B:That they're all over Instagram.
Speaker B:Come back to New York.
Speaker B:I was literally there yesterday.
Speaker C:Like Jonah always skipping San Francisco.
Speaker C:And I'm like, I've played five times in San Francisco.
Speaker B:So funny.
Speaker B:Pay attention, people.
Speaker B:He likes your request interactions, but makes them like you've actually done a little bit of homework.
Speaker C:I think my take, my general take those.
Speaker C:Come, come do whatever you want.
Speaker C:Be.
Speaker C:Be who you are.
Speaker C:Go feel you want to feel.
Speaker C:It's fine.
Speaker C:Bang and dance and have fun.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh.
Speaker B:Pretty cool.
Speaker B:All right, well, I. I have not been to a show yet.
Speaker B:Would like to and so, man, hope you do.
Speaker C:I think we're coming down your way.
Speaker C:We're coming down towards Charleston.
Speaker C:I don't know if we're playing Charleston.
Speaker B:This year, but I can see a very good show, North Carolina.
Speaker C:And let's see what do we got here?
Speaker B:I could see a wind jammer show on the beach.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:For you there.
Speaker B:You would sell it out for sure.
Speaker B:That would be awesome.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:All right, well, let's.
Speaker B:Let's start.
Speaker B:Start to land the plane here.
Speaker B:Now you're.
Speaker B:I mean, we didn't even get into all the famous people.
Speaker B:Hugh Jacks, you, like you mentioned Sam Barber.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're about to go on tour with Dave Matthews Band, right?
Speaker B:Well, we just did.
Speaker B:You just did.
Speaker B:You just did this.
Speaker B:You were just opening for him.
Speaker C:Okay, we just did one.
Speaker C:There might be.
Speaker C:I'm not sure if we're doing more dates next year or not.
Speaker C:I think there.
Speaker C:There talks about it, which would be pretty crazy, but we just did the.
Speaker B:Dave does not have an opener.
Speaker B:A lot of times he comes out, he does his thing.
Speaker B:How did that go down for you?
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:We opened at the Gorge, which is like his weekend at Labor Day.
Speaker B:Iconic weekend.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So we.
Speaker C:I basically I. I had ordered a.
Speaker C:A guitar from Rockbridge Guitars, which is what Dave plays.
Speaker C:Those are his acoustics.
Speaker C:And I commissioned like a custom guitar from Rockbridge, like an eight string guitar that I use all the time now.
Speaker C:But the guy who makes those guitars, Brian, is Dave's like best buddy and they've been working together and been hanging out for the longest time.
Speaker C:And so I did this event for Rockbridge Guitars in Montana and Dave decided to come to the event and we got to do Like a writer's round together, basically.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker C:Me and Dave and Rustin Kelly, who's also amazing.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:And the three of us just got to do this little very intimate event where we were showcasing those guitars.
Speaker C:And Dave just, like, he enjoyed my music and enjoyed hanging out, and I got to meet his whole family and spend time with his kids and his wife, and, like, just being in his world.
Speaker C:And then we got invited to go play the Gorge, Got to hang out with him again.
Speaker C:And, yeah, I mean, it was just in an insane experience.
Speaker B:Surreal.
Speaker B:What was it like hanging with Dave's people?
Speaker C:I mean, they're just.
Speaker C:They're all so kind.
Speaker C:The whole camp is so kind.
Speaker C:And the truth is, is Dave's just a guy.
Speaker C:Like, he.
Speaker C:He is so famous and.
Speaker C:But he is.
Speaker C:He's like.
Speaker C:He's just a guy.
Speaker C:The first time that I met him, he was.
Speaker C:He was.
Speaker C:He had a, you know, tequila in his hand, was.
Speaker C:And was in pajamas, and he came walking out, and it was just like, hello.
Speaker C:And I'm like, that's just a guy.
Speaker C:And, like, you know, and I mean, his kids.
Speaker C:That's just his.
Speaker C:Their dad.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was just.
Speaker C:It was special.
Speaker C:And I grew up listening to Dave, you know, and I.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And it was cool, too, to see my dad, because my dad.
Speaker C:My parents were at the Gorge, and my dad and I used to listen to Dave on the way to school, and so for.
Speaker C:For my dad to come say hi and shake his hand, and that was awesome.
Speaker C:That was like, what a moment.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So special.
Speaker B:And with all that said, I can see Dave's Gorge Crew, people in the audience there, really connecting with your music.
Speaker B:Did you find that?
Speaker B:Did you find some connection?
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:I. I've always said I think the most valuable thing that an artist can do if you're starting from scratch, is to open for the right audience.
Speaker C:And, like, getting out in front of that audience was like, I could feel the immediate impact even in just.
Speaker C:And the thing was, like, they could just kind of feel how much fun I was having.
Speaker C:And that was the most feedback that I got was like, they could feel how grateful and how much fun I was having.
Speaker C:And because of that, they're fans, and now they're coming in more shows.
Speaker D:And I've.
Speaker C:I've seen people.
Speaker C:I've gotten all these messages and followers and all these things from.
Speaker C:From that one event that'll just.
Speaker B:I saw you at the Gorge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I tell you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It also goes to show everybody, you got to Go for the opener.
Speaker C:Yeah, totally.
Speaker C:Well, I also got to.
Speaker C:So there was.
Speaker C:When I was living in my Airstream, there was this family who offered their yard to me for a little bit when I was, you know, semi homeless.
Speaker C:And I made.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker C:They're now some of my best friends, but I made a good chunk of the album in their yard.
Speaker C:And the.
Speaker C:They're huge.
Speaker C:Dave Heads, you know, like, oh, okay.
Speaker C:And so I got to have them out also and sit with them after playing.
Speaker C:And they're just like the best little family, too.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And they've got little kids and stuff.
Speaker C:It was just like.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, is this what it's all about?
Speaker C:You know?
Speaker B:That was full circle on so many different levels, man.
Speaker C:Yeah, totally.
Speaker C:Oh, gosh.
Speaker B:Whatever the listeners can see.
Speaker B:This is how gender roles.
Speaker B:It's just like one cool infinity loop of awesomeness I'm hoping for.
Speaker B:What's your.
Speaker B:So take this anywhere you want.
Speaker B:I mean, what's your parting thought?
Speaker B:You can mention talk about the new album.
Speaker B:You can talk about, like, what you want music or however you're feeling, man.
Speaker C:Please come to a show that.
Speaker C:That is like, my.
Speaker C:My right now for the next, you know, however long.
Speaker C:I'm gonna do this for as long as people will have me.
Speaker C:But the.
Speaker C:The shows are so special now.
Speaker C:I'm so proud of them.
Speaker C:The record is.
Speaker C:Is musical.
Speaker C:I'm very proud of it as well.
Speaker C:I can't wait for people to hear it.
Speaker C:But more than anything, I. I think if you have an opportunity to come to a show, even if it's not mine, go to a show.
Speaker C:Live music is so special, you know, just being able to share that human moment.
Speaker C:I'm not going anywhere for the time being, you know, at least as far as I can control it.
Speaker B:Jonah Kagan, thanks for joining us on the show, everybody.
Speaker B:Stay curious out there.
Speaker A:Thanks for joining Zach and I for this episode of Americana Curious.
Speaker A:Subscribe where you listen to your podcast so you are notified when a new episode is released.
Speaker A:I'm Ben Fanning, and it's been great sharing these artists and music with you.
Speaker A:Until next time, stay Americana Curious.
