TAJ MAHAL Influenced Bob Marley (And Why Music Feels Different Today)
What does Taj Mahal understand about music… that most artists still miss today?
How did his approach to sound end up influencing Bob Marley?
What does it actually mean to feel music instead of just hearing it?
And what have we lost… now that music has become something we just consume?
In this episode, Taj Mahal—five-time Grammy winner and one of the architects of modern Americana—shares a radically different way of thinking about music, connection, and culture.
From growing up surrounded by gospel, jazz, and radio… to shaping a sound that would ripple across generations…
This is a conversation about music.
AND why that matters more than ever.
Ben and Zach have been talking about this interview ever since!
Taj doesn’t just talk about music...he lives it.
And somewhere along the way, it made us rethink how we listen… not just to songs, but to everything around us.
We hope it does the same for you.
If it does—share it with someone who needs to hear it!
Transcript
If you've ever listened to Taj Mahal and thought, why does his music feel so different than everything else today?
Speaker A:Then you have come to the right place.
Speaker A:Because Taj Mahal isn't just a five time Grammy winner.
Speaker A:He's one of the artists who helped shape the sound of modern music, including influencing Bob Marley himself.
Speaker B:Music is not a genre.
Speaker C:Genre is western man's idea of trying to control nature.
Speaker B:Some music is like mental prosthesis, just goes through one ear and out the other.
Speaker A:You'll discover what Taj Mahal understands about music that most artists still miss today.
Speaker A:How does his approach to sound end up influencing someone like Bob Marley?
Speaker A:What does it actually mean to feel music instead of just hearing it?
Speaker A:And what have we lost now that music has become something we just consume?
Speaker B:Talking booze was original.
Speaker B:Bob wrote that about me.
Speaker B:If I can feel it, I.
Speaker A:This is Taj Mahal on what music really is and how to find it again.
Speaker A:I'm Ben Fanning and my co host is Zach Schultz.
Speaker A:It's time to get Americana curious.
Speaker D:Raw, real road worn.
Speaker D:The artists we feature aren't chasing fame, they're chasing truth.
Speaker D:I'm Ben Fanning with my co host Zach Schultz and this is Americana Curious where we spotlight the unsung heroes of Americana music.
Speaker D:You'll get new songs, hard earned lessons, stories behind the music and a big shot of inspiration.
Speaker D:Follow the show and rate us on Spotify and Apple and leave a review on Apple to help more people discover the power of Americana.
Speaker D:Let's get Americana curious.
Speaker E:What are you hearing now in the music that you couldn't hear 30 years ago?
Speaker B:How stupid the music people are, the business people are is about the human connection.
Speaker B:Music is not a genre.
Speaker B:A genre.
Speaker C:Genre is Western man's idea of trying to control nature.
Speaker B:Some music is like you listen, it's.
Speaker C:Like mental floss just goes through one.
Speaker B:Ear and out the other.
Speaker B:But to me, I just like music.
Speaker B:If it hit me, I'm in.
Speaker B:You know, it doesn't have to be on the top of the Pops or something.
Speaker B:Somebody has to be telling me about it.
Speaker C:I just need to hear it.
Speaker B:It's like, it's like music that I.
Speaker C:Have to sit around, listen to and listen to, listen to and listen to.
Speaker F:I went upstairs to Pac man leaving Trump I ain't seen no blues Whiskey made me chop it trunk I ain't never seen no whiskey I did blue.
Speaker B:Made Ms. Lava drunk.
Speaker F:I'm going back to Memphis day Wow.
Speaker B:Much better.
Speaker B:Fell in love.
Speaker C:My mother came out of the Baptist tradition in the south she was a singer and I'm about the music, and she was.
Speaker B:She and my dad were about the music of the day.
Speaker B:You know, they both.
Speaker B:They both were teenagers, well, adolescent during the, during the, the jazz era, because.
Speaker C: They were both born in: Speaker B:Church.
Speaker C:My father came from the Caribbean, you know, so he had that class of music.
Speaker E:So what was one of those early artists?
Speaker E:Taj, or maybe like you remember the first song that really did hit you when you were younger.
Speaker E:It really inspired me.
Speaker B:Oh, well.
Speaker B:Coleman Hawkins playing.
Speaker C:Body and Soul.
Speaker C:When I was about 7 years old, that song used to reoccur with me anytime I was walking anywhere, you know?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean that like that, you.
Speaker B:Know, and then, you know, and then actually for years, I never, I never played this song.
Speaker C:But a few about, About.
Speaker B:About a month or two months ago, I, I would always say it every.
Speaker C:Once in a while.
Speaker B:My kids.
Speaker B:The tuna came out of my, my.
Speaker B:From my mom, because she was the one.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:I would say she was probably more.
Speaker C:Responsible for my connection to.
Speaker C:To America than anything because she had like, old Dan Tucker, you know, and she'd always say, sing songs like that while she'd be holding the baby and stomping her foot and singing and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And then the song was thinking.
Speaker E:So think of those early stories and how your, Your, Your mom really influenced your.
Speaker E:Your.
Speaker E:Your music and your life.
Speaker E:What's the recommendation for parents today?
Speaker E:How you think about parents today?
Speaker E:Like, what can we.
Speaker E:Like Zach and I are parents and we're talking to our kids about music we want them to get into.
Speaker B:You need to be playing music for them, playing music around them and tell them that you got two ears, one mouth.
Speaker C:And listen, watch, listen, watch.
Speaker B:And that, that.
Speaker B:You see, nowadays, they don't develop their ears, you know, they got the earbuds in there, you know, and they think what they're hearing is.
Speaker B:No, that is not the universe.
Speaker C:You're not listening to the universe.
Speaker B:Remember, we came in the time we came.
Speaker B:This is a little later in the time.
Speaker B:We came through as, as.
Speaker B:As listeners in the 40s, 50s, 30s,.
Speaker C:40S, 50s, 60s and earlier.
Speaker B:It was like, it was like a big ear, you know, a giant ear, collective ear goes to a concert to hear, to hear and to see their artists.
Speaker G:Do you still find yourself trying to explore new sounds?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I'm always.
Speaker B:I'm open.
Speaker B:No, no, this, this is an open road here.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:You cannot get your arms around the.
Speaker C:Fecundity of this existence that we have and own.
Speaker C:It won't happen.
Speaker B:I don't care who you are.
Speaker B:Doesn't matter.
Speaker B:You know, as long as you know that, you know, you.
Speaker B:You should never, ever think.
Speaker B:You should realize that the wealth and riches come from.
Speaker C:Not from all those material things.
Speaker C:I mean, for some people that might work for them.
Speaker C:I don't know, you know, I mean, I got a bunch of banjos and guitars and mandolins or, you know, Galilies.
Speaker B:And harmonicas and stuff around keyboards, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:But that's, you know, that's not the wealth.
Speaker C:The wealth is being the music.
Speaker C:You know, that.
Speaker B:That you get picked to be here to do this.
Speaker B:And, you know.
Speaker C:You know, you don't get picked to be Scrooge McDuck.
Speaker E:When you listen to music today, Taj, what are you listening for?
Speaker B:What am I listening for?
Speaker B:Anything that.
Speaker B:Anything that I can feel.
Speaker E:Hey there.
Speaker E:This has been.
Speaker A:If this conversation made you hear music a little bit differently, that's exactly why we make this show.
Speaker E:So here's the deal.
Speaker A:If you know someone who loves music or someone who's kind of fallen out of love with it, then send this episode to them.
Speaker A:Because these are the kinds of conversations that just don't entertain you.
Speaker A:They actually stay with you.
Speaker A:That's its legacy.
Speaker A:And if you want more of this, real stories, real artists, and a deeper look at the music that shaped us, just hit, follow or subscribe where you're listening today.
Speaker A:It helps more than you think.
Speaker A:And it's how we keep bringing you voices.
Speaker A:Just like Taj Mahal.
Speaker C:Reach the soul, touch the soul does.
Speaker B:Not get down to us spiritually.
Speaker B:You know, molecular level, you know, all.
Speaker C:Creatively creative molecular level.
Speaker B:It's like, it does not have to be somebody that's popular.
Speaker B:I may have never heard this artist before.
Speaker B:If I can feel it, I'm there.
Speaker G:Is that what inspires you to keep making great music?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:The inspiration is.
Speaker B:It's just like I wake up every day thinking about, will I have enough time to play the.
Speaker B:All the things that I can think of.
Speaker B:I was actually thinking I was going to bring out while I was sitting talking to you guys.
Speaker C:So I was going to have a.
Speaker B:Have a banjo or, you know, it's like I hit.
Speaker B:This is how far I got to go, you know whom I got instrument, please?
Speaker C:Right there.
Speaker B:You know, I got instruments around, so, you know, and then.
Speaker B:And they don't do.
Speaker B:They don't do no good sitting in cases, you know, so you gotta.
Speaker E:I Love that.
Speaker C:So that they play so it can.
Speaker B:Be seen and you know, any.
Speaker B:Anyway, I mean, inspiration is like walking over here to get hooked up to this, this, this computer.
Speaker B:I was thinking a bunch of.
Speaker B:I'm like listening to music right now.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker E:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:It's just like I'm in.
Speaker B:I dove into the deep end of.
Speaker C:The pool and I've been in it, you know.
Speaker E:Oh, you've been in it.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker E:Let's go.
Speaker E:Well, so Taj, on the new album Time, you're bringing a never heard song for.
Speaker E:From Bill Withers, the man behind Lean on Me.
Speaker E:Ain't no sunshine, lovely day.
Speaker E:You're bringing this back to life.
Speaker E:What responsibility comes with finishing an icon song?
Speaker F:You got all the hurt out and change your heart into oh, time will see it through.
Speaker B:Time,.
Speaker F:We'll tell you just when you got all the hurt out and change your heart into.
Speaker B:Do it to the best of your ability.
Speaker B:They have an open door to creative energy and do it to the best of your ability.
Speaker B:The thing of it is, for me, Bill's widow, Marcia, she got the last word, she listened to it and she said it gets her approval.
Speaker C:Soulful.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's all I need.
Speaker B:Bill had given us the nod because.
Speaker C:It's taking us a while to put this together.
Speaker C:You know, there's been a lot of different things that happened.
Speaker C:We had Covid in the middle of.
Speaker B:This, you know, you know, we're now back on our.
Speaker B:Everybody's back on their feet trying to.
Speaker C:Figure it out and, and, and, you know, this new paradigm.
Speaker B:But yeah, you know, the music is like.
Speaker B:It was a good, it was a great song.
Speaker B:I was glad that, you know, Steve Berkowitz, you know, brought it around because.
Speaker C:He was really close to Bill and before he took off to, to.
Speaker E:Oh, man.
Speaker C:From, From Sony, you know, they were trying to make him into some.
Speaker B:They, they wanted them said, okay, you need to, you need to speed up your tempos and you know, and get some, get, you know, B3 player, a couple, couple, couple synthesizers and Kibi, the keyboard players and some background singers, you know, a lead guitar player.
Speaker B:They will look at them like, yeah, y' all crazy.
Speaker G:Wow.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker G:Well, the song is called Time.
Speaker G:So.
Speaker G:Did it teach you anything?
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker G:What did you learn about Time or.
Speaker B:No, you know what it did.
Speaker B:I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what it did.
Speaker B:It made me.
Speaker B:Made me assured that it's too bad that the business got in the way.
Speaker C:Of, of this guy being able to go forward and Bring out more of his music that we had never heard before.
Speaker E:That's beautiful.
Speaker B:I mean, that's the real truth of it, is that, you know, when I heard the song, I was like, wow, this is different from anything else he's ever done.
Speaker B:I mean, the temple.
Speaker B:Temple wise.
Speaker B:You know, Bill.
Speaker B:Bill didn't.
Speaker B:He didn't let nobody give him no.
Speaker C:Other temple than the temple that felt right to him, you know?
Speaker B:You know, I mean, his.
Speaker B:The way he swang up to.
Speaker B:Swung up to the notes, you know, I mean, the guy was from Slab Fort, West Virginia.
Speaker C:That was a coal mine in town.
Speaker B:He was the only one, somebody in his family that played music.
Speaker E:Wow.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker G:Wow.
Speaker G:Well, I gotta say this, Taj, about the new album, because I've listened to it a few times, so this thing had me thinking.
Speaker G:I mean, it had me dancing, grooving, damn near.
Speaker G:I mean, it's.
Speaker G:It's sexy.
Speaker G:It's a sexy album.
Speaker E:Is that your goal?
Speaker B:Well, not my goal, no.
Speaker B:My goal was to do the music the best.
Speaker B:You know, I'm like.
Speaker B:I'm like the.
Speaker B:You know, I do the music like the Balinese.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We don't have any art.
Speaker B:We do the music.
Speaker B:We do everything the best that we can.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker G:Made me want to run home and dance with my wife, I gotta tell you that.
Speaker B:Please, thank.
Speaker B:Look, now, that's a compliment.
Speaker B:That's a compliment now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The point of it is, does your wife want to dance with you?
Speaker G:She likes me still, Todd.
Speaker B:No, no, that wasn't a question.
Speaker B:How was it?
Speaker B:You know, I mean, I was just saying.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I was waiting for an oh, yeah.
Speaker G:Oh, yeah.
Speaker E:Oh, yeah.
Speaker E:Well, that song put the whammy on me or something else, Taj.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:When she shook that short, fat fetish,.
Speaker C:You put the whammy all on me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker E:Who's singing that song, too, Taj?
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's a good tune.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't know what you do to me.
Speaker C:Like, who do in the first degree.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, man.
Speaker B:Come on, man.
Speaker B:And that's it.
Speaker B:It's like what it is.
Speaker B:As soon as I heard the tune, it was like, oh, we got to do this.
Speaker E:Oh, my.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Mark Shark either played guitar with Jesse.
Speaker C:Davis in a graffiti band with John Trudell, you know?
Speaker C:Yeah, He.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker C:He wrote that.
Speaker C:I can't think what the other guy's famous actually wrote to.
Speaker C:And the two of them wrote together.
Speaker E:Yeah, There was some heat in the studio that time, you know.
Speaker E:Okay.
Speaker B:Hey, no, when we go, there ain't no reason to be in there if.
Speaker C:You ain't got no heat, you know, why you gonna.
Speaker B:Why are you gonna put chicken.
Speaker B:Chicken in the roasting pan?
Speaker C:It ain't gonna be good when it comes out.
Speaker E:Oh, yes.
Speaker E:That's some Orangeburg lingo coming out.
Speaker B:Come on, man.
Speaker C:Sucker changed sucker.
Speaker E:Tosh.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker E:Talk about this tune with Ziggy Marley, man.
Speaker E:You guys get like a deep cut Bob Marley tune and just go off on talking blues, man.
Speaker E:There's something going on on that one.
Speaker E:It's really well special.
Speaker B:Talking Blues is.
Speaker B:Was original.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:Bob wrote that about me.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He came to him.
Speaker B:He came.
Speaker B:He was over in the States.
Speaker B:While he was there.
Speaker B:He was there with family man, his bass player and this incredible soccer player,.
Speaker C:Skill Cole, and another guy named Augustus Kleber.
Speaker B:And they came up to my house and Bob was really shocked that I was such a regular person.
Speaker B:And I lived in a place and I didn't have a fence around the house.
Speaker B:And it wasn't like a gated community.
Speaker B:You know, the vehicles people could walk up.
Speaker B:It was like, wow.
Speaker B:I mean, it was really open.
Speaker B:But the fact of it was, I had recorded one of his tunes, which I was the first person in North America to record one of his tunes.
Speaker B:Now, that's different from Johnny Nash.
Speaker B:Nash helped him set up his.
Speaker B:Publishing company, Cayman Music.
Speaker B:And then, of course, because Johnny was hanging around reggae, that's what made.
Speaker C:I Can See clearly now the Pain is Gone.
Speaker B:That was American.
Speaker B:First American attempt to try to catch that Caribbean vibe again.
Speaker B:Last time it came due, it pretty much was hell.
Speaker C:Harry Belafonte, you know, and that was Trinidad.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:So now Jamaica was trying to get in.
Speaker B:You know, of course, my boy Lollipop.
Speaker C:And the Israelites had already happened.
Speaker E:What was it like being up next to Bob?
Speaker E:Like, how did you see Bob that maybe a lot of other people didn't see him?
Speaker B:Well, you know, my.
Speaker B:My problem.
Speaker B:My own father was.
Speaker B:Was.
Speaker B:Was born here, but his parents were.
Speaker C:From St. Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, we lost him to a tragic home accident when he was.
Speaker B:When I was like, about 12 and a half, my mother remarried to a really good friend of our family and his.
Speaker B:He was Jamaican.
Speaker B:So I grew up in a household that was South Carolina, you know.
Speaker B:You know, Black Eyed peas and rice and Jamaica Aki and salt fish, you know, So I grew up in that.
Speaker B:And then the general diaspora, you know, connected to the African Diaspora from Western music, you know, connected to people in the different.
Speaker B:You know, because we grew up in grew up in the Northeast, man, it.
Speaker C:Was like everybody lived in the neighborhood.
Speaker B:You know, you had to learn how to pronounce people's names.
Speaker B:You know, Anyway, you know, I was close to the Jamaican culture.
Speaker B:You know, my stepfather's relatives were always.
Speaker B:You know, it's like the way we do it is that somebody.
Speaker B:Somebody lands here, then you reach your hand back and pull up the next person.
Speaker B:And the next person is supposed to reach back and pull up the next person.
Speaker C:But you get it solid, you get it correct, so you can be here.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, I was like, where I was at, I would listen to people.
Speaker B:Like when the whole folk music protest movement that was happening with people like Phil Oaks and Bob Dylan and all these different people, Gene, Joan Baez, and people were writing tunes like that.
Speaker B:And I was wondering, there's got to be some young guy in the Caribbean, in Jamaica coming up that's listening to the music and going to do something, write something, make something different.
Speaker B:So, yeah, when Marley came along, I was thrilled.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, I had gone over for the Rolling Stones Rock and.
Speaker C: Roll Circus in: Speaker B:People over there that worked for Rondor.
Speaker C:Records, you know, a guy named Denny Cordell.
Speaker B:Most of your English.
Speaker C:This is after the wave of the English bands and people that established, you.
Speaker B:Know, the British Invasion and made some.
Speaker C:Connects with those folks.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:So when Catch a Fire album came out, you know, I got two copies.
Speaker C:Of it sent to me from Rondo Records, from Denny Cordell's office, from.
Speaker C:I think it was his secretary, Janet Dicker, who had my address and sent it to me.
Speaker B:And so I came home one day from the road.
Speaker B:And the mailman knew when I came home, so he gathered my.
Speaker B:My mail and put it down on.
Speaker B:On my porch.
Speaker C:I had to walk down the set of stairs to get there.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I saw these.
Speaker B:This one album, you know, I went inside, took the mantle, sorted it and, you know, I always kept my.
Speaker B:My radio on, you know, had my.
Speaker C:Bass, my upright bass leaning on the.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The speaker.
Speaker C:So it was always vibration of music going through it.
Speaker B:So it was easy for me to click.
Speaker B:Take this record out of the jacket, put it on, man.
Speaker B:As soon as I heard that bass,.
Speaker C:I said, oh, they're never going to play that on AM radio.
Speaker B:That's too radical.
Speaker B:Oh, no, it's really beautiful because, you know, what we do, what we've done here in the United States is we've.
Speaker C:Created the walking base, you know, as.
Speaker B:Well as we, you know, we've got.
Speaker C:The Fumbling base, you know, and all.
Speaker B:Those different kind of things like that.
Speaker C:But the Jamaicans created the talking bass.
Speaker C:That bass is talking all the time.
Speaker B:You don't never not hear what's going.
Speaker C:On at the baseline.
Speaker C:Let's talk it.
Speaker B:So anyway, this tune came up Slave Jarber.
Speaker B:And, man, it was like, whoo, that was incredible.
Speaker B:I mean, the way the tune.
Speaker B:And so I did a version of it after the series.
Speaker C:I did.
Speaker B:See it did a real thing.
Speaker B:It was a double album with the tubas.
Speaker B:And the second album, Happy Just to Be Like I Am, which is an extension of the thing where the tubas.
Speaker B:And then I did Sounder and was in that movie.
Speaker B:And then I did two acoustic albums.
Speaker C:Recycling the blues and other related stuff with me on the COVID with Mississippi John Hurt.
Speaker B:And then the next one was called USO Gooden Bruise.
Speaker B:And after that, I pivoted from playing most of the music here in the.
Speaker C:South of the United States, picking up.
Speaker B:On all of that.
Speaker B:And, you know, in and around many.
Speaker C:Times the Celtic tradition came involved in some of that.
Speaker B:And then I moved on to, you know, I pivoted to mo roots, which is the Caribbean, South America, Africa, you know, and, and beyond.
Speaker B:And so that's when I, I, I brought in, you know, this particular cover, this tune from Marley, and did my version of it.
Speaker B:And so he picked up on that, that I was one.
Speaker B:And then they.
Speaker B:And he was on a tour with Sly and the Family Stone.
Speaker B:The they got thrown off the tour because they couldn't understand how these Ragam Muffin guys were actually making the audience really enjoy the music.
Speaker B:And so they threw him off the tour.
Speaker B:And so I found out about it and kind of hosted them, got them.
Speaker C:Set up in.
Speaker B:Some motel, various individual.
Speaker C:Colleges that had kitchens hooked up there.
Speaker B:Their chef took him down, got him.
Speaker C:Hooked up, hooked everybody up with what they needed.
Speaker B:And then they came up to visit me.
Speaker B:He was still very surprised at, you know, how I was living, which was, you know, nothing, nothing special.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:Just had a, you know, nice space to live in and that, you know, while he was there, he.
Speaker B:He said to me, this way I'm going to do you because you are due me, right?
Speaker B:Which means I'm going to play something like something about you, because you played something about me.
Speaker B:And it was really positive.
Speaker B:And we jammed that.
Speaker B:We jammed a bit that night.
Speaker B:And then the next thing.
Speaker B:And how I knew you listened to the record because he said my face was in a permanent screw.
Speaker B:That is a permanent frown.
Speaker B:Like, you know, cakewalk in the Town I'm a.
Speaker H:I had the blues so bad one time it put my face in a permanent frown Now I'm feeling so much better I can cakewalk in the town I woke up, up this morning Feeling so good, you know I lay back down again Throw your big leg over me, mama I might not feel this good again My baby, oh, my baby I love the way cakewalking.
Speaker E:To tell you lift my face at a permanent frown.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker E:I feel so much better I can.
Speaker B:Cakewalk into town Cakewalk into town when he said my face, my face was in a permanent screw.
Speaker B:I said, well, yes, well, you talk about screw face now.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Oh, God, man.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:So it's one.
Speaker B:And I've been very close to the family, you know, all along.
Speaker B:So, you know, when.
Speaker B:When.
Speaker B:Back when I.
Speaker B:After that, I started, you know, playing with more Africans and Jamaicans and Cape Verdeans and Trinidadians, and I want one of the Jamaican percussionists went down to Hope Road and told Bob that he wanted to bring a wire.
Speaker B:Earl Lindo from Up.
Speaker B:He said, who and who.
Speaker B:Who and who?
Speaker B:He said.
Speaker B:He said, taj Mahal.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:He said, oh, Tosh, he's my uncle.
Speaker C:No problem.
Speaker B:Why.
Speaker B:Why him?
Speaker B:And work with me for about five years, you know, so all that music keeps me together.
Speaker B:You know, he started in.
Speaker B:Started in around the last.
Speaker B:The last Columbia album.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:No, before that.
Speaker C:He started before the.
Speaker B:The last Columbia music Keeps Me Together.
Speaker C:That was the first one he started with Satisfied and Tickled, too.
Speaker C:And all through that area there.
Speaker C:Why I always work on it.
Speaker B:So then, you know, later on, I started knowing about the kids because I got the.
Speaker B:The melody makers or music.
Speaker C:Yeah, melody makers.
Speaker E:Melody makers, Yep.
Speaker B:First group.
Speaker B:You know, I said, wow, this is really good.
Speaker B:You know, these kids are coming along, making room for the children to, you know, follow if they want to.
Speaker B:And, you know, because, I mean, the men.
Speaker B:The men was.
Speaker B:Was plowing make, you know, parting waters.
Speaker B: e, you know, Ziggy came on in: Speaker B:I had a tune that was.
Speaker B:Was on The Satisfied and Tickle 2 album, the last in the Sony.
Speaker B:Sony, you know, records and called Black Man Brown Man.
Speaker B:And so we did that.
Speaker B: We did that again on the: Speaker B:So he came over and was on that album on.
Speaker B:In the same capacity.
Speaker B:And so we just asked again, say, hey, man, you work on.
Speaker B:We're doing one of your dance pieces.
Speaker C:No problem.
Speaker B:He was right there.
Speaker G:That's.
Speaker E:I just want to highlight for our listeners what that story you just told is why we love you and we love Americana because it really ties together community.
Speaker E:Like you said, keeping your ears open musically.
Speaker E:If you'd been closed, you would not have heard the opportunity there.
Speaker E:And you've literally, like your legacy, Bob Marley's legacy, the music, the message behind your music and his music is like, woven together powerfully.
Speaker E:And I think people need to know these.
Speaker E:These connections, so they start looking for it today and into the future.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So y.
Speaker B:You see, here's the whole thing.
Speaker B:There's so much music out there, you could have 10 lifetimes, you know, sequentially, and you ain't going to get to all of it.
Speaker B:This is what I say.
Speaker B:Just the fecundity of the existence that we have for any one person or group of people to think that they.
Speaker C:Can control it all.
Speaker B:There are you.
Speaker B:Talk about head up the keister.
Speaker B:I'm serious, man.
Speaker B:You really got the wrong idea.
Speaker B:But no, it's.
Speaker B:It's you.
Speaker B:You can't do it.
Speaker B:And that's what's really great about it, you know, that's what keeps it open.
Speaker B:That's why, you know, every day I wake up, you know, every day is when you build it every day, you know.
Speaker B:And what would.
Speaker G:What would your advice for younger artists trying to find their.
Speaker G:Their sound be?
Speaker B:Listen, like I say, you know, what do you feel?
Speaker B:What draws you, you know, not what somebody else is doing.
Speaker B:What music reaches inside and speaks to you inside.
Speaker B:You know, I was lucky to be where that was.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:That was the water I swam in.
Speaker C:I heard everything, you know, I mean,.
Speaker B:You know, my mother would be rehearsing for.
Speaker B:For something in church and there'll be a piano, because when my dad had.
Speaker C:That was a couple of things that.
Speaker B:They made a deal with, is that if he was going.
Speaker B:If he was going to quit playing music as a way to make a living and go and be a laborer.
Speaker B:Day labor work.
Speaker B:Of course, he was trying to create.
Speaker C:An independent construction company.
Speaker C:He was working got.
Speaker B:Got about two thirds of the way toward that.
Speaker B:But he also had a regular job.
Speaker C:And did a lot of things with the neighborhood.
Speaker B:But yeah, he in the deal with my mother because he wanted.
Speaker B:He said to her, she said, well, what are we doing?
Speaker B:We said, well, I want to have a big family.
Speaker B:She said, well, I'm a college girl.
Speaker B:At some point I'm going to want.
Speaker C:To go back to school, and I.
Speaker B:Got my bachelor's degree and I wanted to go back and get my master's and Literally, he said, that's cool.
Speaker B:He said, but I'll tell you what I wanted.
Speaker B:And she said, oh, and if I'm going to do that, you want to raise a big family.
Speaker B:Oh, you want to be able to go.
Speaker B:Do you want to work and have the kind of equipment and appliances that allow me to really be economical, you know, like wash her dryer, maybe a.
Speaker C:Sunbeam Mixmaster, you know, these different things that you need to, to have kinds of stoves and equipment, pressure cooker, canning.
Speaker B:Devices, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:He said, oh, yeah, I got no problem with that.
Speaker C:He said, but we got to have a piano in this house.
Speaker C:So we had a baby grand piano in the house, and we had a record player, radio.
Speaker C:And that was where, like, the music.
Speaker B:At that time came out of the culture.
Speaker B:This is before the record industry got.
Speaker C:A lock on it.
Speaker B:So even though they were making money.
Speaker C:Out of those record companies, they went,.
Speaker B:They didn't have a lock on it,.
Speaker C:You know, where they could control what was being put out.
Speaker C:They just heard that.
Speaker B:They heard something that people liked, then they got with it.
Speaker B:So I was listening to all this music, you know, that.
Speaker B:And it was like relatives, you know, I mean, Coleman Hawkins was like my,.
Speaker C:My uncle, as far as I was concerned.
Speaker B:Illinois Jacket, Nat King Cole, my cousin, you know, I mean, in terms of.
Speaker C:The way it was open to me,.
Speaker B:That was the way, you know, Taju.
Speaker B:I mean, not directly.
Speaker B:I mean, direct.
Speaker B:Direct person like that was Buddy Johnson.
Speaker B:Buddy Johnson was my godfather.
Speaker C:He's the one that wrote Sentai.
Speaker C:Since I felt for you.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, he and my dad, he grew up in South Carolina.
Speaker B:From South Carolina, he used to eat cackalack, a man there, you know, Kakalaka,.
Speaker E:Man always goes back to South Carolina somewhere.
Speaker B:Hey, man, you got.
Speaker B:Listen, South Carolina, ma'.
Speaker B:Am, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you.
Speaker B:The thing of it is, I, I, I today I was talking to somebody about this.
Speaker B:I am still talking about how my mama cook.
Speaker B:I used to.
Speaker B:How mama knew.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Mama never knows.
Speaker B:You hear me?
Speaker B:That's why.
Speaker E:What was the best dish she made or what was your favorite dish?
Speaker E:Everything.
Speaker B:There's only two things I didn't like.
Speaker B:Chip beef on toast.
Speaker B:Where she did maybe one time.
Speaker C:No, that ain't gonna work.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And, and, and pearl.
Speaker C:Well, three things.
Speaker B:Pearl onions and any kind of squash.
Speaker C:That didn't have, you know, that didn't have, like, you know, tomatoes.
Speaker C:And you had to have some sauce.
Speaker C:Squash for me.
Speaker B:That's good, but squash.
Speaker C:Now that was a different story.
Speaker B:Was there one dish?
Speaker E:If she was going to do it, you knew you need to be there early.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, you say, my dear made macaroni, baked macaroni.
Speaker C:And I helped.
Speaker E:Taj thinking about your.
Speaker E:Like, you tour for a long time, you're ready to go on tour again.
Speaker E:What's one thing you would like people to start doing in the audience when they come to a Taj show?
Speaker E:And what's one thing you would like them to stop doing when they come to a Tasha?
Speaker B:Well, first of all, realize that, that, that the essence of this music has traveled intercontinentally, you know, by various trades over the years.
Speaker B:You know, is a music that the audience is a part of the performance.
Speaker B:And the music doesn't get to be as good as it can be if the audience is just sitting there drawing in.
Speaker B:You know, it's like to really start, like Bob Mahler said, you got to lively up yourself, yourself.
Speaker B:And don't be no drag.
Speaker E:I heard that song today.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Come through the door, bearing the gifts.
Speaker C:Of humanity with one another and being.
Speaker B:Able to put some energy in the room.
Speaker B:A lot of times, I mean, the concerts are good.
Speaker B:The way the business controls it.
Speaker B:It controls it through the songs that are hits.
Speaker B:So now the audience comes there with expectation to hear the hits as opposed to be moved by music.
Speaker B:You know, it's like when you go into a church, say it is a.
Speaker C:Baptist church you've never been into before.
Speaker B:Okay, I don't care what the songs are.
Speaker B:They move me, you know, I never heard them before.
Speaker B:And some I may have heard, you know, I have my favorites, you know, I have, you know, but, but, and, and, and it's like, now I'm not going to have a bad experience in.
Speaker C:The church, which is basically where the music is in the same kind of,.
Speaker B:You know, revered in the same kind.
Speaker C:Of way, you know, but, you know,.
Speaker B:I mean, we ain't talking religion here, but we're just talking about spiritual commune between people.
Speaker E:I heard a story one time, something.
Speaker B:I would like for them to do is come in, come in open to really.
Speaker B:To really be and know that.
Speaker B:That the, that we're there.
Speaker B:We're there to make that happen.
Speaker B:You know, all of us, not just me on the stage.
Speaker B:I'm not just there to be, you know, I mean, I got some.
Speaker C:I got some conductoring ability, but it's.
Speaker B:All of us, you know, we know that that's what we want.
Speaker B:What, you know,.
Speaker E:What's it like when you Get Taj.
Speaker E:When you.
Speaker E:Like when you do see the crowd feeling it and getting into it.
Speaker E:And I heard a story one time of you looking down and you saw Mick Jagger and some of them getting into it and feeling it.
Speaker E:On this day, what's it like for you as the artist on the stage?
Speaker G:What's it like to see Mick Jagger,.
Speaker E:See Mick Jagger dance, Mick Jagger and other people getting into it.
Speaker E:Like, what's the effect on you and your music when you see this?
Speaker B:No, I mean, it's just knowing that, you know, what I'm doing is connecting with somebody else who connected with the music, the same kind of music.
Speaker B:I mean, that situation, that scene was at the Whiskey Go Go on Sunset and Larrabee in Los Angeles.
Speaker B:Legendary and legendary.
Speaker B:You had it right.
Speaker B:And we were playing, it was Jesse Davis, Gary Gilmore.
Speaker B:Jesse Davis on guitar, Gary Gilmore on bass, Chuck Blackwell on drums, and me on harmonica.
Speaker B:And sometimes, you know, a guitar.
Speaker B:And then we were playing and we looked down.
Speaker B:Keith and Mick were dancing.
Speaker B:Okay, And.
Speaker B:Oh, and what's the guy, the keyboard player that was the sixth stone.
Speaker B:I can't think.
Speaker C:What was his name?
Speaker C:Man, in jog.
Speaker C:He looked like if.
Speaker B:If.
Speaker B:If Jay Leno was like five, seven.
Speaker B:He looked one.
Speaker B:Like five porn.
Speaker C:He looked like this guy, you know.
Speaker B:Anyway, he was.
Speaker B:It was a.
Speaker B:It was a.
Speaker B:Was a keyboard player.
Speaker B:He was dancing.
Speaker B:The room was incredible.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:In the back of the room was.
Speaker B:Was Eric Clapton and I don't know which one, and Ginger Baker.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker C:Who is this guy?
Speaker B:Graham Bond, crazy keyboard player.
Speaker B:And some Japanese.
Speaker C:Some.
Speaker B:A Japanese group called, called the.
Speaker C:Tigers.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:They kept saying, out, out of sight.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then over here was like the Animals, Eric Burdon Hilton, Valentin and Chaz Chandler.
Speaker B:And it was all enjoying it because they had come, you know, they came to the States to hear the real music.
Speaker B:And I used to play at this club.
Speaker C:I actually.
Speaker C:Bouncer and doorman, opening act sometime, you.
Speaker B:Know, in this place, Cedar and Greeter.
Speaker B:And they came.
Speaker B:I seen them guys come in many a night.
Speaker C:You know, Lightning Hopkins, Son House played.
Speaker B:At these places, you know.
Speaker B:And these were guys that they heard on record.
Speaker C:They'd never seen these people.
Speaker B:And here they were in a club, you know, those guys come.
Speaker B:Well seated.
Speaker B:Johnny Cash.
Speaker B:One night he came in to see.
Speaker B:To see Lightning Hopkins, you know, I mean, you know, but, you know, I'm just in there.
Speaker B:Like I said, I jumped off in the deep end of the pool.
Speaker B:I've been in it.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, you look down and you see.
Speaker B:And you know your job is working.
Speaker B:I mean, what you're doing is working.
Speaker B:People are feeling it, you know, and, and it's just always good.
Speaker B:And yeah, another thing is like, there's a lady, Carly Simon, she has a club up out on.
Speaker B:I don't know if she still has it, but she had a club out on Martha's Vineyard called the Hot Tin Roof.
Speaker E:Hey there.
Speaker A:We actually lost Taj Mahal right there when he got cut off.
Speaker A:But honestly, it feels like the right place to leave it because the music doesn't really end anyway.
Speaker A:You just stay in it.
Speaker D:Thanks for joining Zach and I for this episode of Americana Curious.
Speaker D:Subscribe where you listen to your podcast so you are notified when a new episode is released.
Speaker D:I'm Ben Fanning, and it's been great sharing these artists and music with you.
Speaker D:Until next time, stay Americana Curious.
