Toad the Wet Sprocket's Glen Phillips - FAME to FULFILLMENT
Fame to Fulfillment
Toad the Wet Sprocket's Glen Phllips pulls back the curtain on his decades-long musical journey, revealing the emotional highs and lows that shaped his art.
He opens up about the pressures of success, how nostalgia has reshaped his audience, and why vulnerability is the core of his craft.
You'll get a laugh-out-loud story about a disastrous solo gig that turned unforgettable.
You’ll hear how songs like All I Want became a soundtrack for life’s most intimate moments, from weddings to hospice care.
And, he dives into how the shifting music industry challenges artists to adapt while staying true to their creative vision.
You'll also discover:
When Chaos Turned Into Art
A Songs That Save Lives
Redefining Success Through Connection
When Nostalgia Sparked New Success
Why His Vulnerability Fueled Creativity
The Evolving Sound that has Timeless Impact.
Check out Glen Phillips here: https://www.glenphillips.com/
AND follow Americana Curious on Instagram for the latest interviews and the behind-the-scenes with your favorite artists! https://www.instagram.com/americanacurious
Transcript
We spotted the ocean at the head of the trail where are we going?
Glenn Phillips:I had years of bitterness after Toad.
Glenn Phillips:It weighed on me for a long time.
Glenn Phillips:I've outdone that record.
Glenn Phillips:The whole band agrees that New Constellation is our best album.
Glenn Phillips:You know, songs like Grief and Praise that it's like, well, it was never a hit, but.
Glenn Phillips:But it gets played on a lot of deathbeds.
Glenn Phillips:It's played by a lot of hospice people.
Glenn Phillips:The letters that I have had about that song and its meaning, knowing a song gets in people's hearts, knowing that it means so much to them at the most vulnerable points of their life.
Glenn Phillips:That's how I gauge success now.
Glenn Phillips:I'm pretty happy now, writing the best songs I can write.
Glenn Phillips:We've been sounding better, We've been enjoying each other more.
Glenn Phillips:Everyone's happier, everyone's more invested.
Glenn Phillips:And for that to happen this long into our careers, unbelievable.
Glenn Phillips:It's wonderful.
Ben Fanning:Americana music transforms the world.
Ben Fanning:And unfortunately, too many are unaware of its profound impact.
Ben Fanning:Americana musicians are the unsung heroes, and here you'll join us in exploring these passionate artists and how they offer inspiration and hope for the future.
Ben Fanning:This show makes it happen in a fun and entertaining way.
Ben Fanning:You'll discover new music that you'll love.
Ben Fanning:Hard earned Lessons from the road, the story behind favorite songs, a big dose of inspiration for you and your friends, and a good laugh along the way.
Ben Fanning:I'm Ben Fanink and my co host is Zach Schultz.
Ben Fanning:It's time to get Americana Curious.
Ben Fanning:Hey there, everybody.
Ben Fanning:Welcome back to your favorite podcast and mine, Americana Curious.
Ben Fanning:And we've got an absolute legend in the house today with Glenn Phillips.
Ben Fanning:You know him also as the soulful voice and creative force behind Toad the Wet Sprocket, the band that gave us unforgettable hits like All I Want and Walk on the Ocean.
Ben Fanning: into music history with fear,: Ben Fanning:Hello.
Ben Fanning: And in light syrup: Ben Fanning:Striking gold.
Ben Fanning:Glenn and Toad the Wet Sprocket left a permanent mark on the music scene.
Ben Fanning:But Glenn didn't stop there.
Ben Fanning:When Toad hit pause, he took his artistry to new heights with five stunning solo career albums.
Ben Fanning:Delivery music, that's an intro that's introspective as well as heart stirring.
Ben Fanning:Oh, and let's not forget his incredible collaborations.
Ben Fanning:Teaming up with Nickel Creek for the Mutual Admiration Society and joining the folk pop super group Work Works Progress Administration.
Ben Fanning:Get ready, y'all.
Ben Fanning:Here comes Glenn.
Ben Fanning:Glenn, welcome to Americana Curious.
Glenn Phillips:Thank You.
Glenn Phillips:Thanks for having me.
Ben Fanning:So I had to stop Glenn when we got going here because he was telling us one of his most embarrassing moments from the stage.
Ben Fanning:And we just love opening it up with something like that.
Glenn Phillips:So humiliate.
Glenn Phillips:You like to humiliate your guests quickly.
Ben Fanning:Get it right out of the way.
Glenn Phillips:I'm playing Philadelphia on one of my very first ever solo tours.
Glenn Phillips:And I'm forgetting if it was the Anchor Bar or the Tin angel that was a Philadelphia show.
Glenn Phillips:This was, like, right at peak ma Map Quest time, like, where we were just getting out of atlases, but just beginning to have, like, computers be able to tell us where to go.
Glenn Phillips:So I would have, like, stacks and stacks of pages.
Glenn Phillips:The directions, map Quest, continue on 95, left on 95, stay on 95.
Glenn Phillips:Like, a whole three pages of just staying on 95.
Glenn Phillips:Anyway, and I ended up playing the gig.
Glenn Phillips:I'd eaten a lot of spicy chips that day, and I used to go commando, and I felt something go slightly wrong just before stepping on the stage and ran to the bathroom, wiped myself off, wasn't looking pretty, and went, played the show, broke a string, ran backstage, keeping my back to the back of the stage, clean myself off again, and that night ended up getting three encores.
Glenn Phillips:Ended up one of my best solo shows ever.
Glenn Phillips:Three encores and running back between each and just trying to clean myself up and get back.
Glenn Phillips:Just kept my back to the wall, shook hands, back to the wall the whole night.
Glenn Phillips:Luckily, I was staying with a friend who was going to medical school there, so he was not squeamish.
Glenn Phillips:He gave me a pair of pants because he couldn't wash anything out sufficiently enough.
Glenn Phillips:He gave me a new pair of pants, and I don't go commando anymore.
Glenn Phillips:So that's my advertisement for always wearing underwear.
Glenn Phillips:You asked embarrassing stories.
Glenn Phillips:You mentioned underwear.
Glenn Phillips:So I had to go there.
Glenn Phillips:But the best thing of it was the people walking up afterwards and going like, man, you were so intense tonight.
Glenn Phillips:I could just tell you were feeling something.
Glenn Phillips:And I was just feeling like, yes.
Ben Fanning:We'Ve all been there.
Ben Fanning:Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
Glenn Phillips:So, I mean, hey, Ed Sheeran, right?
Glenn Phillips:I think it was.
Glenn Phillips:It.
Glenn Phillips:What was the.
Glenn Phillips:Like at Wembley.
Glenn Phillips:Oh, gee, something bad.
Glenn Phillips:And had to run off stage and come back.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, it happens.
Ben Fanning:Yeah, it.
Ben Fanning:It happens.
Ben Fanning:And I'm curious.
Ben Fanning:So I read an interview with Greg Allman back in the day, and we.
Ben Fanning:And we since had his son, Devin Almond, on the show.
Ben Fanning:But.
Ben Fanning:But Greg talked about this interview.
Ben Fanning:He's like, man, you could be feeling terrible.
Ben Fanning:You could have an illness, you whatever.
Ben Fanning:But like, when he would walk on that stage, he would just.
Ben Fanning:With this.
Ben Fanning:This otherworldly energy.
Ben Fanning:And then when you walked off, kind of all the pain said again.
Ben Fanning:But from your perspective, I mean, the.
Glenn Phillips:Show must go on.
Glenn Phillips:It's not just a thing you say.
Glenn Phillips:It's actually like an imperative.
Glenn Phillips:Unless you're physically incapable of completing the show, you do your absolute best and you hope you're good enough to make it so that people just think you had an intense night.
Zach Schultz:Well, yeah.
Zach Schultz:I mean, we had Steve Poltz on and he described having a stroke mid set and finished the set.
Glenn Phillips:Of course he did.
Zach Schultz:But he's crazy.
Ben Fanning:Of course he did.
Glenn Phillips:This is also Steve Foltz.
Glenn Phillips:Yes.
Zach Schultz:Yeah.
Zach Schultz:Can I go back to the beginning.
Glenn Phillips:Though, before late nights with him?
Zach Schultz:Oh, have you.
Zach Schultz:Oh, cool.
Ben Fanning:Oh, gosh.
Zach Schultz:So you started.
Zach Schultz:I mean, you started writing songs at a very young age, sort of.
Zach Schultz:Were you kind of a savant of music?
Zach Schultz:Musical savant?
Glenn Phillips:I wrote lots of terrible songs really early.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, my first song was probably the summer after seventh grade.
Glenn Phillips:Either seventh or eighth grade.
Glenn Phillips:I went to Interlaken camp.
Glenn Phillips:I had my first kiss.
Glenn Phillips:And I was really into Rush at the time.
Glenn Phillips:And so I wrote like this, you know, six minute.
Glenn Phillips:Because I thought all songs had to be long and have multiple.
Zach Schultz:Six minute ballad.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah, Love ballads.
Glenn Phillips:So not very Rush on the lyrics, but I was really trying best to get the riffs and the changes and all of that happening.
Zach Schultz:So you knew at an early age, though, that you.
Zach Schultz:You could write a song?
Glenn Phillips:Yeah, I mean, I.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah, I enjoyed writing songs.
Glenn Phillips:At that time I was more of a theater kid and kind of thought that I was going to pursue that.
Glenn Phillips:I.
Glenn Phillips:And then my.
Glenn Phillips:When I was a freshman in high school, I had a theater teacher who was talking about how he was teaching theater because he loved.
Glenn Phillips:He loved the theater more than anything, but he didn't want to have to audition or get bad reviews or have the scrutiny.
Glenn Phillips:And I'm like, oh, that's me.
Glenn Phillips:Because the criticism would fry my brain, which it did, but.
Glenn Phillips:And so I was like, I'll be a teacher.
Glenn Phillips:And then that same year, I met the guys in Toad.
Glenn Phillips:We were in choir and Oklahoma and our town together.
Glenn Phillips:We were doing theater together and started writing songs with Todd.
Glenn Phillips:They were all seniors.
Glenn Phillips:I was a freshman and we started writing songs.
Glenn Phillips:We had a band.
Glenn Phillips:And then, you know, when I was 18, we got signed and so I didn't get to meet and all I.
Zach Schultz:And you wrote All I Want when you were 20.
Zach Schultz:And it became.
Zach Schultz:I Mean a fairly big hit.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah.
Zach Schultz:So what was that like, twofold?
Zach Schultz:How what is that like as a young child to have this massive song that you created become really weird?
Glenn Phillips:And we were very much, you know, we were deeply identified with being an indie band.
Glenn Phillips:You know, we recorded our first two records before we got signed, like when I was 17, 18, and we had this indie attitude and we almost didn't put All I Want on on the record.
Glenn Phillips:We didn't put Good Intentions, which ended up being a pretty big hit later on the record, specifically because it was too pop.
Glenn Phillips:We're like, we're not a pop band, we're an indie band.
Glenn Phillips:And so, yeah, All I Want almost didn't make it.
Glenn Phillips:And it was the third single off the record.
Glenn Phillips:It was nine months into the record and it was kind of a Hail Mary single.
Glenn Phillips:And so it was really strange.
Glenn Phillips:It was odd to have this song that kind of felt like an outlier was a little brighter than most of what we did.
Glenn Phillips:And that became our calling.
Glenn Phillips:You know, it's.
Glenn Phillips:What do you.
Zach Schultz:What do you think was.
Zach Schultz:What.
Glenn Phillips:What's the.
Zach Schultz:What do you think that was that song that made.
Zach Schultz:That resonated with folks that.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, I think it' a positive song.
Glenn Phillips:I think the song's.
Glenn Phillips:You know, I'm trying to think.
Glenn Phillips:I've never really parsed the lyrics to Walking on Sunshine.
Glenn Phillips:I don't think there's much negativity in Walking on Sunshine.
Glenn Phillips:But I think if there's a song, you know, I've just been learning Lovely Day by Bill Withers and like a song that manages to have melancholy and joy and contrast the two.
Glenn Phillips:Because, like, you know, there's the.
Glenn Phillips:That.
Glenn Phillips:The cheap happiness of ignorance, right?
Glenn Phillips:You just pretend stuff isn't happening and everything's great and then there's, you know, joy, which is, I think, being able to feel everything and to come out of sadness or darkness and even not come out, but still be holding it and.
Glenn Phillips:And then still have hope, still have joy, still see beauty.
Glenn Phillips:And I think all I want has that element to it, you know, the contrast of light and darkness.
Glenn Phillips:And I think having, you know, once again, like, I'm just stuck on lovely day right now because I'd never learned it before.
Glenn Phillips:So it was always, you know, lovely day.
Glenn Phillips:Lovely day.
Glenn Phillips:Always wish you pull like a little higher on that, but it's just a little flat.
Glenn Phillips:But it's awesome.
Glenn Phillips:But, you know, but the verse is like, you know, when the day that lies ahead of me seems impossible to face.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, it's like and someone else instead of me always seems to know the way.
Glenn Phillips:It's like, it's.
Glenn Phillips:But then it's like, you know, and you.
Glenn Phillips:You have the.
Glenn Phillips:The yin, the yang.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, I think all I want.
Glenn Phillips:Head of yin, head of Yang, 120 beats per minute.
Glenn Phillips:And you know, sing along chorus.
Glenn Phillips:There you go.
Glenn Phillips:And you said, neither am I.
Ben Fanning:One of the things I love about your story and to the West Broadcast story is that you did these albums without going to the record label, right?
Glenn Phillips:You.
Ben Fanning:You did this your way.
Ben Fanning:You were indie band and that was cutting edge, right?
Ben Fanning:I mean, the people to have that kind of.
Ben Fanning:That kind of success, thinking back to like the negotiations with the labels and all that stuff, did that.
Ben Fanning:Did you feel more empowered through that experience or are you so dang young you're like, what you guys like?
Glenn Phillips:Yeah, well, we had an attitude and, you know, we were young.
Glenn Phillips:We didn't have a lot of needs.
Glenn Phillips:So, you know, we.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, basically what happened with Sony was they were trying to make a name with indie music, and we had been offered a lot of money by other record companies, and the money comes with strings.
Glenn Phillips:And so we took, you know, recording only advances from Sony.
Glenn Phillips:And that was our thing is we weren't going to be expensive and we got a high rate on the back end.
Glenn Phillips:And the idea was that we would earn our money if we made any, and instead of taking it all up front, because that comes with all that pressure, so we were allowed to have creative control because of that.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, when we got to the Coil album, we'd had two platinum records.
Glenn Phillips:We didn't see a single royalty check until we'd had a platinum album and a gold record.
Glenn Phillips:It was right when Dulcinea went gold.
Glenn Phillips:And so we were like, maybe we should get some money.
Glenn Phillips:So we took more money up front for Coyle and we tried not to play ball.
Glenn Phillips:And that actually made for a really sour relationship with parts of the company.
Glenn Phillips:You know, they wanted their hit now.
Glenn Phillips:It wasn't like, okay, you recorded your album, it's fine.
Glenn Phillips:Like, let's see if there's a hit there.
Glenn Phillips:It's like from.
Glenn Phillips:From the get go, there's this different kind of pressure.
Glenn Phillips:And we kind of thought we could take the money but not play the game.
Glenn Phillips:And that didn't work very well in the long term.
Ben Fanning:Yeah, so.
Zach Schultz:So when you're starting out with your music scene in Santa Barbara, is there, and you're going through this.
Zach Schultz:These trials, is there a band that you can look up to, see that kind of Came before you or that gave you advice or how do.
Zach Schultz:How do you know?
Zach Schultz:How do you know what to do?
Glenn Phillips:You know, I mean, not so much.
Glenn Phillips:I think we trusted our management.
Glenn Phillips:We had.
Glenn Phillips:We were lucky to have some really good people.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, particularly Tom Gibson at Sony was our product manager through the whole career there, and he was a great advocate.
Glenn Phillips:He's the reason All I Want was a single.
Glenn Phillips:A and R wasn't into having another single, and he pushed for it when he kept.
Glenn Phillips:He really believed in us and kept the.
Glenn Phillips:Kept the company working the records.
Glenn Phillips:So our product manager.
Glenn Phillips:And we also lucked out with A and R at the company.
Glenn Phillips:Our first guy was this guy, Ron Oberman, who was wonderful and just was like, sounds great.
Glenn Phillips:You know, he was D.C.
Glenn Phillips:and our second guy was Chuck Plotkin, who, you know, produced Dylan and Springsteen.
Glenn Phillips:And he just wanted a cool record.
Glenn Phillips:And he would.
Glenn Phillips:He.
Glenn Phillips:He said his job was to protect us from the radio guys.
Glenn Phillips:And I remember him coming in with, you know, Bill Sunny and, like, listening the mixes, and he's like, wow, it's a wild stew.
Glenn Phillips:You could take people on a lot of journeys.
Glenn Phillips:The sequencing is going to be really important because, like, the narrative and emotional qualities, like, that's all he cared about.
Glenn Phillips:So we totally lucked out.
Glenn Phillips:And then Nick Terzo was with us as well.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, once again, towards the end, we had our first guy who just went, yeah, could be a single.
Glenn Phillips:Like, that was the only response we got.
Glenn Phillips:And so it.
Glenn Phillips:It was a product for the first time in our career, which was hard for us to kind of handle.
Ben Fanning:Oh, man.
Ben Fanning:Yeah.
Ben Fanning:Like one of the most.
Ben Fanning:Like Arnold Schwarzenegger's most profitable movie.
Ben Fanning:People are often surprised to hear.
Ben Fanning:You may know this is Twins and it.
Ben Fanning:Okay, because he set it up.
Ben Fanning:He and Dane DeVito set it up like you guys did early on in the game, where you didn't.
Ben Fanning:You're like, hey, this is.
Ben Fanning:We're going to do this.
Ben Fanning:And if it's a success, we're going to enjoy the.
Glenn Phillips:We get the back end.
Ben Fanning:Yeah, yeah.
Glenn Phillips:Versus how it can work.
Glenn Phillips:Great.
Glenn Phillips:It's just.
Glenn Phillips:If you've ever looked at major label accounting, everything's recoupable, and it's recoupable.
Glenn Phillips:You know, if.
Glenn Phillips:If.
Glenn Phillips:If they're making, you know, a couple dollars, $3, whatever profit off of record sold, you know, back in those days, or let's say it's $4 profit, they take $3 profit, and your dollar goes back to pay your debt.
Glenn Phillips:And so they're very, very far in the Black.
Glenn Phillips:By the time the artist sees anything and the accounting is set up in such a way like you're free to audit them, you have to pay for the audit, and you're making a bet that the amount that they've hidden from you, because usually the mistakes are all.
Glenn Phillips:They pretty much always go in the company's, you know, in the company's favor.
Glenn Phillips:And your audit, you're taking a risk that you'll find less than the audit costs.
Glenn Phillips:And so you get a lot of advice, even straight on, of, no, I think there's this.
Glenn Phillips:I think the funds are actually worth the cost of the audit that you have to pay.
Glenn Phillips:But, I mean, that's, you know, a story as old as business.
Glenn Phillips:Right.
Ben Fanning:So what's one of your favorite?
Glenn Phillips:Schwarzenegger works out a better back end than we got.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah.
Ben Fanning:I think it's his voice that wins him over.
Ben Fanning:Do you.
Ben Fanning:Do you think that.
Ben Fanning:So.
Ben Fanning:So looking back at the.
Ben Fanning:At the Toad, the West Brocket Days, what was one of your favorite shows from the road that did not involve spicy food and underwear?
Glenn Phillips:Oh, man, we had a lot of great shows.
Glenn Phillips:You know, the wildest shows, strangely, were Salt Lake City, Honolulu and Tijuana.
Glenn Phillips:I remember those three.
Glenn Phillips:It's like, I think Salt Lake City because, you know, people.
Glenn Phillips:We played with this band, the Origin out there at the horticultural center.
Glenn Phillips:It was just this huge building full of kids.
Glenn Phillips:They went wild, and they had all the.
Glenn Phillips:All the security was Polynesian dudes, these huge guys, and they would just be, like, plucking girls out of the front row who would, you know, were getting smashed against the front and kind of bringing them to safety and they could walk away.
Glenn Phillips:No one messed with those guys.
Glenn Phillips:They were amazing.
Glenn Phillips:But that show was wild.
Glenn Phillips:Salt Lake, you know, when Salt Lake lets loose, Salt Lake really lets loose.
Glenn Phillips:So that was a ton of fun.
Glenn Phillips:Honolulu, like, nobody comes out there.
Glenn Phillips:We played this outdoor show, and people are, like, climbing over the fences and just.
Glenn Phillips:We felt like.
Glenn Phillips:Because we're, you know, we're kind of shoe gazy.
Glenn Phillips:Like, back in the day when we would play radio festivals, you know, it'd be Rollins and Green Day.
Glenn Phillips:None of them even looked at us in the hall.
Glenn Phillips:Like, we were so, you know, we were sweet songs about sadness, you know, and so it wasn't cool at the time, I mean, which is.
Glenn Phillips:I think part of our popularity is we were filling a niche for melancholy, you know, as opposed to angst.
Glenn Phillips:And so.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:And then the.
Glenn Phillips:The last one of those, you know, San Diego, they would do these shows right over the Border in Tijuana.
Glenn Phillips:And so all the 18 year olds would come to Mexico, they would get blastered.
Glenn Phillips:And it was, it was.
Glenn Phillips:That was wild.
Zach Schultz:Yeah, that's.
Glenn Phillips:I don't know if those were the best, but those were the.
Ben Fanning:Like, the common thing is like the crowd is somehow in a mindset of just releasing energy to you guys.
Ben Fanning:Yeah, right.
Ben Fanning:They're waiting to be free, unhinged for a while.
Glenn Phillips:And there's something.
Glenn Phillips:When stuff is going on, I mean, there's the earlier, you know, story of that, but I mean, one of our other best shows was at Miami University in Ohio.
Glenn Phillips:Forgetting what the benefit.
Glenn Phillips:It was a benefit.
Glenn Phillips:Forgetting what it was for.
Glenn Phillips:But one of my dear friends took his life the day before.
Glenn Phillips:You know, we got them, we had a day off, we got the news.
Glenn Phillips:And that show was incredible.
Glenn Phillips:I think just because we were so full of emotion, you know.
Glenn Phillips:And once again, the show must go on.
Glenn Phillips:And so every bit of that grief and surprise went right into, right into the show.
Glenn Phillips:It was one of our best show.
Glenn Phillips:You know, just remembered it for years and years is, you know, that night where you and the audience are on the same ride and it goes really deep.
Glenn Phillips:So I wasn't bright colored light and I was a song on your lips in the night dreams were heard and I wouldn't rest the weight of the world sat hard on the chest and you were the view at the top of the climb you were the breath in the pause in time you were the beast that wondered if I could ever deserve ever would find when I was a riot.
Ben Fanning:Well, thanks for sharing that personal thing.
Ben Fanning:A lot of times I think we in the audience and Zach and I go to a lot of shows, we.
Ben Fanning:We don't know what's really on the artist's mind when they're performing.
Ben Fanning:When you have a moment like that, do you like to share?
Ben Fanning:Like did you share your friends dad with the crowd or did you like internal and just let it express through the music?
Glenn Phillips:Yeah, it's not the point.
Glenn Phillips:I mean there's.
Glenn Phillips:I used to talk a lot about a lot of things from stage.
Glenn Phillips:I've.
Glenn Phillips:I'm like a little.
Glenn Phillips:Especially with how divisive things are these days.
Glenn Phillips:I don't want to shut up and sing.
Glenn Phillips:I firmly hold that it is my right to say what I believe.
Glenn Phillips:I also realized at some point that if I was alienating half the audience and just preaching to the converted with the other half, that I wasn't really doing any good.
Glenn Phillips:I did a lot of that during the lockdown, live streams and Lost a lot of people and, you know, realize, you know, and, you know, still, like, if anything come, you know, I still.
Glenn Phillips:I don't bite my tongue completely.
Glenn Phillips:And when I fail to bite my tongue, it's amazing how many people blow up and are like, I'll never listen again.
Glenn Phillips:You're.
Glenn Phillips:It's like, wow, free speech advocate.
Glenn Phillips:You're a little sensitive.
Zach Schultz:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:Oh, well, you know, it's interesting.
Glenn Phillips:Just a couple years ago, I really kind of pulled back and I realized if I have a spiel that works, it's like finding things to say that are unifying or inarguable, you know, and sometimes.
Glenn Phillips:And that is a shockingly, you know, movable item as well.
Glenn Phillips:But just, you know, like this.
Glenn Phillips:This last year, if I, you know, towards the end of the set, I would say something to the effect of, it's so good to see a room.
Glenn Phillips:Every night we do this, you know, there's this room full of people, of strangers who forget that they've been told not to trust each other and harmonize and get along and sing and make peace.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, regardless of your social media feeds, because left or right, we're all getting feeds that are telling us to be paranoid and intolerant and.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, just that, like, you know, music is unifying, Harmonizing is unifying and realizing.
Glenn Phillips:People don't, I think, come to my shows to be proselytized to or to be, you know, I'm not Billy Bragg, Right?
Glenn Phillips:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:Thank God.
Ben Fanning:We've seen God for Billy.
Glenn Phillips:Brad.
Ben Fanning:We know.
Glenn Phillips:I love.
Zach Schultz:We just saw him, I don't know, a couple months ago, and it was awesome.
Zach Schultz:But, yes, he was saying everything that he wanted to say.
Glenn Phillips:Hell, yeah.
Glenn Phillips:And I think, you know, for people who say shut up and sing, I'm like, I'm sorry.
Glenn Phillips:It's like you telling an artist not to think or feel is a stupid thing to do.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, I'm sorry if that leaves you with a handful of mediocre artists whose politics.
Zach Schultz:Yes, exactly.
Zach Schultz:Yeah.
Zach Schultz:The ones that shut up and sing are.
Glenn Phillips:Well, well.
Glenn Phillips:Or the ones who don't shut up and sing.
Glenn Phillips:But if you can only listen to the artists that are on your side.
Glenn Phillips:And, hey, I can even say Kanye, as much as I think he's gone off the deep end, you know, college dropout, like, hell, yeah.
Glenn Phillips:That's a good record.
Zach Schultz:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:Nothing can change that.
Glenn Phillips:But.
Glenn Phillips:But, you know, it's.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, when people have a right, I think to silo.
Glenn Phillips:But I have to go, like, what's my job and what's my, you know, what is the greater content of what I want to do?
Glenn Phillips:And the stuff that I really believe in, you know, I'm about, you know, is love, kindness, vulnerability, better language around grief, better language around, you know, enduring hard times and finding common ground when things are hard.
Glenn Phillips:And so I have to practice what I preach in that.
Glenn Phillips:And I had to give up the habit of, you know, being on my high horse and telling people what to think.
Glenn Phillips:And I mean, even the process of talking about this, I'm sure there's a dozen people who said, come and turn it off.
Glenn Phillips:So I get it.
Glenn Phillips:I get it.
Glenn Phillips:And we're in that time where it's so aggrieved.
Glenn Phillips:And I think, you know, even this year, the politics, like, I, as a lefty, I feel like there's been a real wake up call throughout.
Glenn Phillips:How unheard people feel.
Zach Schultz:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:How disempowered, how unfair the system is, which everybody I totally agree with.
Glenn Phillips:I don't think either party serves anymore how much people want change, how frustrated they are and how they feel disrespected and unlistened to and angry.
Glenn Phillips:And I'm.
Glenn Phillips:I'm understanding that better.
Glenn Phillips:I don't think I got it.
Glenn Phillips:And I think I've been at times part of the problem.
Glenn Phillips:And so I have to ask what I actually believe in and what.
Glenn Phillips:What I think is in my wheelhouse to be able to move the needle.
Glenn Phillips:And so I want the Billy Braggs.
Glenn Phillips:I want the.
Glenn Phillips:I want the people shaking their fist and seeing their truth.
Glenn Phillips:And I also, at the end of the day, I'm probably better when I talk about issues of the heart than, you know, it's just a better subject for me.
Glenn Phillips:I'm better informed.
Glenn Phillips:So we can talk grief as much as you want.
Glenn Phillips:I'm really good with grief.
Glenn Phillips:All that you love be taken someday by the angel of death or the servants of chain in a flood water Time without rancor.
Ben Fanning:What's a.
Ben Fanning:What's a misconception, Glenn, that people have about your music?
Glenn Phillips:A lot of people thought we were a Christian band back in the day.
Glenn Phillips:There's a lot of imagery, biblical imagery, because it's the mythology of our culture.
Glenn Phillips:It's something people understand.
Glenn Phillips:It's a language.
Glenn Phillips:I'm fascinated with not having grown up in the church.
Glenn Phillips:And so for me, you know, I started reading mostly Apocrypha, like, when I was like, 16, 18.
Ben Fanning:Let's pick a rare book of the Bible to start on.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:I don't know.
Glenn Phillips:And I got really into Eileen Pagel's Who's.
Glenn Phillips:She's a great agnostic style.
Glenn Phillips:She's fascinating.
Glenn Phillips:And so, like, you know, songs like, you know, Fly From Heaven and stuff, I was.
Glenn Phillips:I was heavy into Pegels, and so I was, you know, kind of feeding off that stuff.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:And so.
Glenn Phillips:But what I love is that I've had people come up about Dulcinea and say as a record.
Glenn Phillips:I've had people who thought that that was a record about being born again and were shocked to find that it wasn't.
Glenn Phillips:And I met another person who thought it was about coming out of the closet, and it wasn't about that either.
Glenn Phillips:And I love that it worked for both of them, because if there's something that it's about, it's wrestling with who you are, trying to find truth, like what's.
Glenn Phillips:What's true inside you.
Ben Fanning:I was having that experience.
Ben Fanning:I was trying to find truth.
Ben Fanning:I was in college, very.
Ben Fanning:Felt aimless at times, and it spoke.
Glenn Phillips:To me that way.
Glenn Phillips:And so those things are universal.
Glenn Phillips:So I think if that, like.
Glenn Phillips:And I.
Glenn Phillips:I tend to write.
Glenn Phillips:I call it like emotional specificity with situational ambiguity.
Glenn Phillips:You know, so you don't necessarily understand the thing that's happening, but there's enough details to kind of put you.
Glenn Phillips:You in a place where you can imagine well, and that, you know, in emotional specificity, it's not just one thing.
Glenn Phillips:Like, my favorite.
Glenn Phillips:One of my favorite words is.
Glenn Phillips:Is ambivalence.
Glenn Phillips:Because, like, the way, you know, like, the ambivalent gets used.
Glenn Phillips:Meaning, like most people think of it as.
Glenn Phillips:It means you don't feel strongly about something.
Glenn Phillips:Right.
Glenn Phillips:I'm ambivalent.
Glenn Phillips:I don't really know, but like, the etymology of the word, it's ambivalent.
Glenn Phillips:Right.
Glenn Phillips:Dual valence.
Glenn Phillips:So it means you feel two things really strongly that might be looked at as being contrary.
Glenn Phillips:You know, I really want to go to this family reunion.
Glenn Phillips:I'm scared to death of Uncle Ted, and I never want to talk or, you know, whoever.
Glenn Phillips:I have not.
Glenn Phillips:Not my Uncle Ted, but, you know, it's like, it's.
Glenn Phillips:But, you know, you feel two things really strongly.
Glenn Phillips:You're really excited about moving into the new house.
Glenn Phillips:You're scared shitless.
Glenn Phillips:You're, you know, you're having all these emotional reactions you don't understand.
Glenn Phillips:And I think emotional tension carrying ambivalence around and, you know, being non.
Glenn Phillips:Dual.
Glenn Phillips:Right.
Glenn Phillips:As you're.
Glenn Phillips:As you're thinking about your feelings, like it's a blend of colors.
Glenn Phillips:It's.
Glenn Phillips:You know, you're not one thing or another.
Glenn Phillips:You're always a number of things, and so trying to have that kind of, you know, a slightly complex emotional palette, I think make songs resonate for people in a different way.
Glenn Phillips:Like.
Zach Schultz:Yeah.
Zach Schultz:So how do you.
Zach Schultz:I read something about a game that you play with Matt the Electrician, who's a songwriter.
Zach Schultz:Is this a.
Zach Schultz:It's a text.
Zach Schultz:Well, explain it to our listeners.
Zach Schultz:But is it just to stay sharp or.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah, I mean, I've been so bad at it this year, I completely fell out of it over the last six months.
Glenn Phillips:But I still get the emails here.
Glenn Phillips:Wait, I'm going to call up.
Glenn Phillips:Just a second.
Glenn Phillips:Matt.
Ben Fanning:Matt, Electrician.
Ben Fanning:Come in, Matt.
Glenn Phillips:All right, here he is.
Glenn Phillips:So it's like every week there's an email that will say something like, hey, song peoples, Happy Sunday.
Glenn Phillips:Hope your worlds are spinning.
Glenn Phillips:New title.
Glenn Phillips:There were no flowers.
Glenn Phillips:Do Friday by Midnight.
Glenn Phillips:Art emoji.
Glenn Phillips:And so.
Glenn Phillips:Wow.
Glenn Phillips:And then there's like, 24 people in the group.
Glenn Phillips:And on Friday, everyone but turns in a song and it's not responding.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, I'm an asshole.
Glenn Phillips:There were no flowers, so.
Glenn Phillips:But it has to have those words in order at some point.
Glenn Phillips:It doesn't have to be the chorus, doesn't have to be the title.
Glenn Phillips:Just those words have to appear in the song, and they're.
Glenn Phillips:They're usually like stumbly phrases.
Glenn Phillips:You know, he likes to throw things at you that are slightly awkward.
Glenn Phillips:And.
Glenn Phillips:And so it's.
Glenn Phillips:You know, and.
Glenn Phillips:And everyone.
Glenn Phillips:Nobody has to comment on anyone else's song.
Glenn Phillips:Nobody has to write the songs.
Glenn Phillips:It's, like, recommended that you try to get a minute, you know, at least a minute of music.
Glenn Phillips:And it doesn't have to be good.
Glenn Phillips:It just has to be done.
Glenn Phillips:And it just keeps everybody kind of in shape.
Glenn Phillips:You know, you get tossed something.
Glenn Phillips:And I found when I was.
Glenn Phillips:You know, I just had realized I was getting divorced, you know, 10, 11 years ago, and I was trying to bypass the experience I was going through.
Glenn Phillips:I was, like, trying to write, I'm going to write a dance record, and I couldn't write a thing.
Glenn Phillips:And then I got these titles from him.
Glenn Phillips:What was the title?
Glenn Phillips:It was Reconstructing the Diary and then Leaving Old Town.
Glenn Phillips:And I got these titles from Matt, and I started writing the songs I had to write and that I wouldn't do on my own.
Glenn Phillips:But that title, you know, it's.
Glenn Phillips:You kind of dive and you see what you come back with.
Glenn Phillips:And, I mean, the songwriting process anyway, for me is really exploratory.
Glenn Phillips:I will often have a thing I want to Write about.
Glenn Phillips:And I sit down with the intent of writing about that, and then a line will come along that's way better than the song I was writing, but it doesn't really fit, right?
Glenn Phillips:I'll sing one line.
Glenn Phillips:It's like, oh, that's true.
Glenn Phillips:And so my job as a songwriter is to put the song I wanted to write off for a later date and write the song that I'm writing instead.
Glenn Phillips:You know, and let that.
Glenn Phillips:Let that line or two tell me what the rest of the song is about.
Glenn Phillips:Like, you follow the truth and not necessarily what happened.
Glenn Phillips:There's.
Glenn Phillips:There's also that thing, but you follow the truth of the song and, you know, you can start in one direction and end up a completely different place.
Glenn Phillips:But I love that process of writing.
Glenn Phillips:It's discovery, right?
Glenn Phillips:It's, you know, when people talk about the muse coming, it's like, you gotta listen to the muse.
Glenn Phillips:You don't tell them what to.
Glenn Phillips:They're not chatgpt.
Glenn Phillips:You're not getting edited stuff back from them.
Glenn Phillips:Like, the muses have an agenda, and you gotta listen to that.
Ben Fanning:So, so powerful.
Ben Fanning:So many things in there.
Ben Fanning:But you seem like a songwriter or songwriter, right?
Ben Fanning:You show up every day, you're writing.
Ben Fanning:You know, you've got a process, at least until the last six months maybe.
Glenn Phillips:But you.
Ben Fanning:Five solo albums, man, and I mean.
Ben Fanning:I mean, you've got more solo albums now than Toad the Wits, Sprocket albums, correct?
Glenn Phillips:I think so, yeah.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, I've written a lot of Songs of Variance, and I think as I get older, you know, even, you know, post divorce, losing my soundproofed room.
Glenn Phillips:I lived in an old studio for a while.
Glenn Phillips:I lived in Dishwaller's old practice studio for a year and a half a while ago.
Ben Fanning:Wait, wait.
Ben Fanning:Dishwaller?
Ben Fanning:Remind me.
Glenn Phillips:Tell me all your thoughts on God.
Zach Schultz:Yeah.
Ben Fanning:So do you live in the Dishwallah studio?
Glenn Phillips:It was in this, like, old lighthouse building.
Glenn Phillips:It was a lighthouse keeper's house on the mesa in Santa Barbara.
Glenn Phillips:And they'd made all the walls.
Glenn Phillips:It was literally, I was looking for a place to live.
Glenn Phillips:And the first apartment I looked at, it's like, that looks like the bedroom wall looks like a.
Glenn Phillips:Like, it had a bed in it.
Glenn Phillips:But it's like that window looks like a studio window.
Glenn Phillips:It's got, like, the double glass at the angle.
Glenn Phillips:Like, I gotta call this person.
Glenn Phillips:And so it was nicely soundproofed.
Glenn Phillips:That's all I'm saying.
Ben Fanning:Like, carved into the wall.
Ben Fanning:Anywhere was here.
Ben Fanning:No good.
Glenn Phillips:No, but there were, you know, living now it's like, you know, remarried and the place where Ian.
Glenn Phillips:There's not a lot of acoustic separation, so I don't like anyone to be able to hear a thing I'm doing when I write.
Glenn Phillips:So it's like I have to choose my times, and it's writing discipline.
Glenn Phillips:Before, cell phones in the Internet was much easier for me, and, you know, so it's.
Glenn Phillips:It's interesting now to try.
Glenn Phillips:Honestly, co writing is the best thing for me these days because it gets me in a room with somebody, and I can't disappear.
Zach Schultz:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:I was gonna ask.
Glenn Phillips:Keep my attention.
Zach Schultz:I was gonna ask.
Zach Schultz:Because you love collaborations, so I love collaborating.
Glenn Phillips:I love assignments.
Glenn Phillips:You know, it can be difficult for me at home.
Glenn Phillips:I'm, you know, really trying to figure out my mind these days.
Glenn Phillips:The road is very easy for me because all the tasks are very.
Glenn Phillips:They have to be executed.
Glenn Phillips:They're finite.
Glenn Phillips:Right?
Glenn Phillips:You got to get to the venue, you got to sound check, you got to set up the merch, play the show, shake the hands, settle the show, settle the merch, pack up, get to sleep, do it again.
Glenn Phillips:Like, every day is this kind of combination of novelty because it's a different setting, so you're figuring out different stuff.
Glenn Phillips:But it's like, everything must be done every single day.
Glenn Phillips:And when I get home, it's very.
Glenn Phillips:It's daunting because there's not.
Glenn Phillips:I haven't learned how to have a great structure at home.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, the people I know who've become, like, professional songwriters at home, like Dan, well, like, they have schedules.
Glenn Phillips:They.
Glenn Phillips:They're really good about that.
Glenn Phillips:And I have, as of yet, been truly terrible.
Glenn Phillips:And it's something I need to work out because it gets me depressed.
Glenn Phillips:But it's weird.
Glenn Phillips:It's a difference to go, like, I gotta play the best show I can play tonight.
Glenn Phillips:And when I get home, I should be thinking, I gotta write the best song I can write right now.
Glenn Phillips:And that's the advice.
Glenn Phillips:You know, the book that I keep starting and stopping on songwriting to give all the advice I don't take, is.
Ben Fanning:That'S the best way to learn, is to teach it.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah, I know, but.
Glenn Phillips:But is you write the best song you can write right now.
Glenn Phillips:And I come home and I'm like, I gotta write the best song I've ever written.
Glenn Phillips:I gotta write great songs, and I can't write if it's not a great song and that then you don't write.
Glenn Phillips:I gotta write important.
Glenn Phillips:You know, it's like Toad, like, all.
Ben Fanning:The huge hits you had before.
Ben Fanning:Is it.
Ben Fanning:Is it empowering or is it like a big.
Ben Fanning:Like, I gotta outdo that album.
Glenn Phillips:It weighed on me for a long time.
Glenn Phillips:I've outdone that record.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, I think the whole band agrees that New Constellation is our best album, without a doubt.
Glenn Phillips:It's the best songs, it's the best playing.
Glenn Phillips:It's best arrangements we got.
Glenn Phillips:We became a better band.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, individual songs I have written, you know, songs like Grief and Praise that it's like, well, it was never a hit.
Glenn Phillips:Maybe somebody will do, like, a country cover of it someday.
Glenn Phillips:But it gets played on a lot of deathbeds, gets played by a lot of hospice people, gets played in a lot of therapy sessions.
Glenn Phillips:Like the letters that I have had about that song and its meaning, or the song, you were meant to be here with so many parents of kids with disabilities.
Glenn Phillips:And, like, I like, it's really beautiful.
Glenn Phillips:Like, knowing a song gets in people's hearts, knowing that it means so much to them at the most vulnerable points of their life.
Glenn Phillips:And, like, that's how I gauge success now.
Glenn Phillips:Being on the radio, you know, is an artifact of time, luck, marketing.
Glenn Phillips:You know, we were on a major label at a time when things were changing rapidly in radio, when formats were incredibly open and we were doing something that was just indie enough to be indie, but also kind of pop enough to be pop.
Glenn Phillips:We had this little sweet spot where we could get played on rock radio and pop radio and the emerging, you know, they weren't even called alternative stations yet.
Glenn Phillips:So, like, we, you know, it's an artifact of timing, and I think that's fine.
Glenn Phillips:You know, there are a lot of great songwriters now who are coming out of TikTok world, are coming, like.
Glenn Phillips:And TikTok, you know, the technology of the time and the media of the time will also favor certain kinds of artists, certain kinds of music, certain kinds of personalities.
Glenn Phillips:And I had years of bitterness after Toad thinking, like, I'm a better songwriter than I was when I was 18.
Glenn Phillips:I didn't know what I was talking about.
Glenn Phillips:I was, you know, faking it half the time.
Glenn Phillips:And I'm a better writer now.
Glenn Phillips:And I still believe that, but it's different, you know, And I'm not hitting people in their 20s when they're making their notebook of the soundtrack of their life, right?
Glenn Phillips:It's like there's something about hitting people just as they leave home, just as they're creating their adult identity.
Glenn Phillips:Those albums stick with you in a different way.
Glenn Phillips:And so, you know, and, you know, now I'M there as, you know, adult children leave the house or as people get divorces or, you know, I'm good for all that stuff.
Glenn Phillips:But, you know, let's follow by the new record.
Glenn Phillips:That's.
Glenn Phillips:That's a great one if you're facing major life changes.
Glenn Phillips:But it's, you know, all of that stuff, you know, I.
Glenn Phillips:I have to define SEC success differently because of the biometrics of popularity.
Glenn Phillips:You know, so we're having an upswing because 90s music is back in and there's a multi generational thing of people's kids in their 20s who grew up listening to us because their parents listened to us.
Glenn Phillips:They come and see our shows now, which is awesome.
Glenn Phillips:And so all of that is happening.
Glenn Phillips:But there's also, you know, if we're, you know, maybe some director will feature a new song of ours in a film or a TV show or a trailer, and we'll have our Kate Bush moment, you know.
Glenn Phillips:You know, you're like Stranger Things.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, hell, like, what a great song and also what a completely surprising, like, windfall for her, right?
Glenn Phillips:And that could happen.
Glenn Phillips:I'm looking forward to it.
Glenn Phillips:I still think all I want somebody should, you know, do the hip hop version.
Glenn Phillips:Hopefully that'll happen someday, you know, but, you know, barring that, like, lightning strike, I'm pretty happy now, you know, writing the best songs I can write.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, I love touring.
Glenn Phillips:The band is in a.
Glenn Phillips:You know, we really turned a corner a few years ago and it's been getting better.
Glenn Phillips:We've been sounding better, We've been enjoying each other more.
Glenn Phillips:Everyone's happier, everyone's more invested.
Glenn Phillips:And for that to happen this long into our career is unbelievable.
Glenn Phillips:It's wonderful.
Glenn Phillips:So, you know, trying to be happy for what I have, if I, if I go comparison, you know, even you too, you know, they're not as big as you two used to be, and I'm sure they have to fight.
Glenn Phillips:Like, we're not the biggest band in the world anymore.
Glenn Phillips:Like, what did we do wrong?
Glenn Phillips:It's like, dude, just go, great.
Ben Fanning:You're good.
Ben Fanning:Like, the idea of a musician and your band defining success and impact on your own terms versus popularity versus impact and the depth of your newer songs.
Ben Fanning:I mean, clearly it's a powerful story, my friend.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah, well, and, or, or, you know, I've been locked in things like, you know, affording a house in Santa Barbara post, which I, I almost got one before I lost the house years ago.
Glenn Phillips:And, and, you know, it's like.
Glenn Phillips:And the, you know, once Again, the things that just go through your mind again and again.
Glenn Phillips:Coulda, shoulda, woulda.
Glenn Phillips:And it's like, well, now I, you know, if I could ever afford a home here, it would be truly remarkable.
Glenn Phillips:But even a good amount of success doesn't get you a home.
Ben Fanning:Speaking of success, you mentioned something about some stories with Steve Poltz and.
Ben Fanning:What?
Ben Fanning:Oh, it's one of your favorite stories.
Ben Fanning:No, I mean, he was on our show.
Ben Fanning:He told about Jewel.
Ben Fanning:He talked about all kinds of stuff.
Ben Fanning:Oh, he's got crazy stories, clearly.
Glenn Phillips:I will generally, in his crazy stories, let him tell them because also he tells them best.
Glenn Phillips:And I have known Pulse.
Glenn Phillips:I knew Pulse in his wild days.
Glenn Phillips:Right after Toad broke up, we did a tour.
Glenn Phillips:When did they want to call it?
Glenn Phillips:He called it Fraser Fair.
Glenn Phillips:That was when.
Glenn Phillips:When Toad broke up for the first time.
Glenn Phillips:Fraser Fair instead of Lilith Fair.
Glenn Phillips:And he.
Glenn Phillips:It was him and Pete Droge and.
Glenn Phillips:Wait, I'm messing up.
Glenn Phillips:Oh, and John Doe from X.
Glenn Phillips:So awesome tour.
Glenn Phillips:And four of us, we each played like an hour.
Glenn Phillips:It was a really long night.
Glenn Phillips:And that's how I got to know him was on that tour.
Glenn Phillips:And that was like more not.
Glenn Phillips:Not his wildest of wild days, but he was still in.
Glenn Phillips:In the wild days.
Glenn Phillips:And so I've known him through a lot of changes, you know, and he's always had this.
Glenn Phillips:Just the, the.
Glenn Phillips:His lust for life is kind of unmatchable and his, his kindness and his just like he is there, you know, Like, I would love to.
Glenn Phillips:I don't know if I could handle feeling as alive as he does, but I would like to try it for at least a couple hours sometime.
Glenn Phillips:But it's, you know, my favorite story with him is seeing him play.
Glenn Phillips:We did a show.
Glenn Phillips:We were both playing this festival in San Diego once.
Glenn Phillips:And like, because he does love having the crowd in the palm of his hands and he was playing.
Glenn Phillips:I think it was a song about a veteran.
Glenn Phillips:It was like this very heartwarming.
Glenn Phillips:Like, you know, he has his ones where he's really going for the like, wrap his hand around your heart and squeeze a little song.
Glenn Phillips:And he just done this song and everybody was like holding their kids or their partner and like having this, you know, people were crying, like he totally had them.
Glenn Phillips:And his very next song he had.
Glenn Phillips:He pressed play on his phone that was hooked up through the PA and it started doing this.
Glenn Phillips:And he did this song called Sewing Machine about somebody, like, steals children and sews them to the wall.
Glenn Phillips:And he was, you know, doing these, like, scary movies and like, to just go from, like, tears and hugs and, oh, Steve, whatever you say.
Glenn Phillips:And then sawing marching, and he's like, crazy.
Zach Schultz:I can totally picture that.
Glenn Phillips:And people are, like, hiding their kids away and, like, nobody knows what to make of it.
Glenn Phillips:And he just stays in 100.
Glenn Phillips:He's like, this is what I did.
Glenn Phillips:This is me.
Glenn Phillips:It's not giving two in the best way possible.
Glenn Phillips:Like, even at the expense of your audience.
Glenn Phillips:Like, he's gonna go where he's gonna go.
Glenn Phillips:And, man, if you want to take that ride, like, go.
Glenn Phillips:Go for it.
Glenn Phillips:It's.
Glenn Phillips:It was.
Glenn Phillips:It was one of the most audacious, like, U turns I've ever seen a performer do.
Zach Schultz:We gotta.
Zach Schultz:We gotta get you two to write a song together.
Glenn Phillips:I know.
Glenn Phillips:I gotta go out to Nashville and write with him.
Zach Schultz:Do you have a dream collaboration that.
Zach Schultz:That you would like to work with somebody?
Glenn Phillips:Oh, I have a.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, a bunch of dream collaborations, but, yeah, I do.
Zach Schultz:All right.
Zach Schultz:We're keeping it secret.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah.
Ben Fanning:Well, what is your parting thought for our listeners today?
Ben Fanning:Because, man, you can take this anyway, Glenn, talk about music philosophy.
Glenn Phillips:Oh, we could do.
Glenn Phillips:Actually, I will tell you.
Glenn Phillips:I'm going to go back to the last question and then we'll get back to the other.
Glenn Phillips:I'd like to write with McGee.
Glenn Phillips:Oh, okay.
Glenn Phillips:I think McGee's amazing and the collaboration on the Dijon album absolutely is stunning.
Glenn Phillips:His aesthetic is so interesting to me.
Glenn Phillips:His writing is so good.
Glenn Phillips:His melodies is like.
Glenn Phillips:He's a great musician doing something really unique and innovative.
Glenn Phillips:And if I could spend time the way Dejan spent time with him and make a record like that, hell yeah.
Zach Schultz:Awesome.
Glenn Phillips:There you go.
Glenn Phillips:So what's the last bit?
Ben Fanning:I'll just open it up to you, Glenn.
Ben Fanning:I mean, we.
Ben Fanning:We covered a lot of territory here and it's been so much fun.
Ben Fanning:What's your party thought for our listeners?
Ben Fanning:You can see if you want.
Glenn Phillips:I'm not through these.
Glenn Phillips:It won't.
Glenn Phillips:Won't work well.
Glenn Phillips:It'll sound all zoomy and messed up, but I don't know.
Glenn Phillips:Just looking forward to being out.
Glenn Phillips:I'm doing some shows coming up in December.
Glenn Phillips:I'll be out solo.
Glenn Phillips:Gonna be in the Rockies with John Craig.
Glenn Phillips:February, going to do a couple shows with Big Head Todd, opening for them acoustic in.
Glenn Phillips:In January.
Glenn Phillips:Toad's going to go out again in the summer.
Glenn Phillips:Just, you know, it's another year.
Glenn Phillips:We did.
Glenn Phillips:I did a hundred plus shows this year, and I hope to do a handful less next year because I like being home.
Glenn Phillips:So trying to make that balance.
Glenn Phillips:But, you know, if you.
Zach Schultz:If you do less shows, you have to join the Matt the Electricians writing class some more.
Ben Fanning:I will.
Glenn Phillips:And maybe I'll do some more.
Glenn Phillips:I used to do some songwriting lessons online and stuff like that and having that stuff going, so, you know, making it work.
Glenn Phillips:It's an interesting era to be a musician.
Glenn Phillips:You know, it's a very interesting era, generally, but it's.
Glenn Phillips:It's a really.
Glenn Phillips:I mean, you know, it's the best of times, it's the worst of times, right?
Glenn Phillips:It's like.
Glenn Phillips:And I've met older musicians who still can't get over the fact that people don't buy records anymore.
Glenn Phillips:But, you know, I think we've always, you know, since recorded music started, we've always kind of been at the whim of the current technological trend.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, the thing about those who hold the purse strings is, you know, as.
Glenn Phillips:As Gillian Welch said, they.
Glenn Phillips:They understand that we're going to do it anyway, even if it doesn't pay.
Glenn Phillips:So, you know, it's something you got to do if you got to do it.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, I just.
Glenn Phillips:I don't know.
Glenn Phillips:I love playing music.
Glenn Phillips:I love musicians.
Glenn Phillips:I love people who've made art their life.
Glenn Phillips:You know, it feels really lucky just to even get to know the people I know.
Glenn Phillips:And, you know, that at the end of a long day of driving and checking all those things that I get, you know, an hour or two to play songs for people, it's like, it's.
Glenn Phillips:It's pretty.
Glenn Phillips:Pretty great life.
Ben Fanning:Americana curiosity.
Ben Fanning:Go check out Glenn on tour and give his other albums a spin, which is kind of a throwback to album days, so go with that.
Ben Fanning:All right, Glenn.
Ben Fanning:Thanks, my man.
Glenn Phillips:Thank you.
Glenn Phillips:Yeah.
Glenn Phillips:Be well.
Glenn Phillips:Nice to be here, my heart.
Glenn Phillips:Breath my way through a string of stars to write your.
Ben Fanning:Thanks for joining Zach and I for this episode of Americana Curious.
Ben Fanning:Subscribe where you listen to your podcast so you are notified when a new episode is released.
Ben Fanning:I'm Ben Fanning, and it's been great sharing these artists and music with you.
Ben Fanning:Until next time, stay Americana Curious.
